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<font size=3>The RBMS thesaurus "Provenance Evidence" uses the
term "Fists" - sounds like it needs a UF reference from
"Manicules". Thanks for the citation, Karen! <br><br>
Maybe "Type Evidence" needs the term as well, since the marks
can occur in either print or manuscript form.<br><br>
Glad you found a suitable Spanish equivalent, Larry; I agree with you
that "esta senal" doesn't make much sense on its own.<br><br>
-Manon<br><br>
At 06:11 PM 12/4/2006, Deborah J. Leslie wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Is this Bill Sherman's article?
He and I had a chat after his paper had been submitted. We both regretted
that he and I hadn't spoken about the terminology *before* he'd finished
the article.<br><br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu
[<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" eudora="autourl">
mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>] On Behalf Of Laurence Creider<br>
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:53 PM<br>
To: DCRM Revision Group List<br>
Cc: manon.theroux@yale.edu<br>
Subject: RE: [DCRM-L] Recording symbols<br><br>
<br>
Karen,<br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>Sounds
interesting; I'll try to get the book on ILL. The word <br>
used in the TOC of Owners, annotators ... "Towards a history of the
<br>
manicule," is interesting in that our local expert on colonial
Mexican <br>
documents says the word in Spanish is manecilla.
"Manecilla" is what I <br>
ended up using in the OCLC record. Thank you.<br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>Larry
Creider<br><br>
Laurence S. Creider, Ph.D., M.S.L.S.<br>
Head, General Cataloging Unit<br>
New Mexico State University<br>
Las Cruces, NM 88003<br>
Work: 505-646-4707<br>
Fax: 505-646-7477<br>
lcreider@lib.nmsu.edu<br><br>
<br>
On Mon, 4 Dec 2006 Karen.Attar@london.ac.uk wrote:<br><br>
> If you are interested, there is an overview of English terminology
for "fist" in an essay in Owners, annotators and the signs of
reading, edited by Robin Myers, Michael Harris and Giles Mandelbrote
(London and New Castle, Del., 2005).<br>
><br>
> Karen<br>
><br>
> Dr Karen Attar<br>
> Rare Books Librarian<br>
> Senate House Library<br>
> University of London<br>
> Senate House<br>
> Malet Street<br>
> London<br>
> WC1E 7HU<br>
> Tel. 020 7862 8477<br>
><br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu
[<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" eudora="autourl">
mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>] On Behalf Of Laurence Creider<br>
> Sent: 30 November 2006 22:36<br>
> To: Manon Theroux<br>
> Cc: DCRM Revision Group List<br>
> Subject: RE: [DCRM-L] Recording symbols<br>
><br>
> Manon,<br>
> <x-tab> </x-tab>Thank you for
pointing me in the right direction. I'm not sure whether the
Spanish word for "fist" (puno with a tilde) is what I want, but
I will check. I do wonder about an example for DCRB, however.
In this case, the symbol does seem pretty "integral." I
don't know that "esta senal" makes much sense without a
referent for "esta."<br>
> <x-tab> </x-tab>Larry
Creider<br>
><br>
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2006,<br>
> Manon Theroux wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Larry,<br>
>><br>
>> LCRI 1.0E goes into this issue in greater detail. I've copied
relevant<br>
>> bits of the LCRI below, though you might want to read through
the<br>
>> whole thing (which has a lot of examples). Whether or not
to<br>
>> transcribe the symbol depends on whether or not the symbol is
judged<br>
>> to be an integral part of the title. If you do want to
transcribe, you<br>
>> use the language of the title. If you don't know how to express
the<br>
>> symbol in the language of the title, you use English.<br>
>><br>
>> Like Deborah, "fist" is what came to mind for me (in
English). Not<br>
>> sure of the Spanish equivalent.<br>
>><br>
>> -Manon<br>
>><br>
>> ======================<br>
>><br>
>> Signs and Symbols<br>
>><br>
>> The objective in treating signs and symbols not represented in
the<br>
>> character set is to render or convey the intention without undue
time<br>
>> and effort and with a minimum of interpolation, using one of
the<br>
>> techniques described in this section. Note that a minimum
of<br>
>> interpolation is wanted because those searching the machine
catalog cannot very often be expected to "second-guess"<br>
>> the cataloger in this respect, i.e., users will normally
formulate<br>
>> search queries that necessarily do not take interpolations
into<br>
>> account. As judged appropriate, use notes to explain and added
entries<br>
>> to provide additional access; the examples below are
illustrative, not prescriptive.<br>
>><br>
>> 1) If the symbol is judged not to be an integral or essential
part of<br>
>> the title, do not intervene in the transcription. Instead, omit
the<br>
>> symbol; explain its presence in a note if it is judged worth
mentioning.<br>
>><br>
>> transcription: 245 10 $a "W" today! Tomorrow?<br>
>> (On the title page the traditional female symbol appears under
the letter "W"<br>
>> but the preface makes it clear that the symbol is not intended
to form<br>
>> part of the title and gives the full title) suggested note: 500
## $a<br>
>> On t.p. the symbol for female appears under the letter
"W"<br>
>> added entry: 246 30 $a Women today! Tomorrow?<br>
>><br>
>> <snip><br>
>><br>
>> 4) Substitute in the language of the context the word, phrase,
etc.,<br>
>> that is the obvious spoken/written equivalent (if unknown in
the<br>
>> language of the context, use English); bracket the
interpolated<br>
>> equivalent. If the element in the source is not preceded or
followed<br>
>> by a space, in general precede or follow the bracketed
interpolation<br>
>> by a space unless the preceding or following character in the
source<br>
>> is itself also a separator or unless the use of a space would
create an unintended result for searching.<br>
>><br>
>> transcription: 245 10 $a I [love] a piano suggested note: 500 ##
$a On<br>
>> t.p. "[love]" appears as a heart<br>
>><br>
>> Exception 1: Do not transcribe characters that indicate birth
(e.g.,<br>
>> an<br>
>> asterisk) or death (e.g., a dagger) even if such characters are
in the<br>
>> character set. Do not use a mark of omission; instead, explain
the<br>
>> omission in a note.<br>
>><br>
>> Exception 2: Ignore symbols indicating trademark (registered
or<br>
>> otherwise), patent, etc. These include a superscript or
subscript "R"<br>
>> enclosed in a circle (®) (ignore although included in the
character<br>
>> set) and the superscript or subscript letters "TM"
((tm)). Do not explain<br>
>> their presence in a note. (Ignore such symbols also when they
appear<br>
>> with elements used in<br>
>> headings.)<br>
>><br>
>> If the spoken/written equivalent is not obvious or if there is
doubt<br>
>> that it is obvious or if it is unknown, give an explanation or
a<br>
>> description in the language of the context (if unknown in the
language<br>
>> of the context, use English).<br>
>><br>
>> If a title consists solely of a sign or symbol or one or more
marks of<br>
>> punctuation, provide an equivalent in all cases, even if
the<br>
>> particular symbol is itself in the character set.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> At 12:23 PM 11/30/2006, Deborah J. Leslie wrote:<br>
>>> Is it a fist?<br>
>>><br>
>>> We don't transcribe or describe non-textual symbols such as
paragraph<br>
>>> marks, rules, and the like. Why would we interpolate a
description of<br>
>>> a fist, if that is what it is?<br>
>>><br>
>>> Deborah J. Leslie, M.A., M.L.S.<br>
>>> Head of CatalogingFolger Shakespeare Library<br>
>>> 201 East Capitol St., S.E.<br>
>>> Washington, DC 20003<br>
>>> 202.675-0369<br>
>>> djleslie@folger.edu<br>
>>><br>
>>> ________________________________<br>
>>><br>
>>> From: dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu on behalf of Laurence
Creider<br>
>>> Sent: Thu 2006-11-30 12:05<br>
>>> To: DCRM Revision Group List<br>
>>> Subject: [DCRM-L] Recording symbols<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Folks,<br>
>>> I am
currently cataloging a work with a title and statement<br>
>>> of responsibility that says:<br>
>>> Tiernos afectos de amor, temor, humildad, y confianza ?h
[microform]<br>
>>> : ?b con que clama en dulces soliloquios una alma, que
arrepentida<br>
>>> llora, y ansiosa suspira por su verdadero bien / ?c
dispuestos en<br>
>>> decimas, las cincuenta y tres asignadas con esta sen~al []
por el<br>
>>> Lic. D. Diego Calderon ... y las restantes por el Rdo. P.
predicador<br>
>>> Fr. Francisco de las Llagas, hijo de la santa provincia de
San Diego<br>
>>> de la Serafica Descalzes de Nro^. P. San Francisco ...<br>
>>><br>
>>> Following the word senal is a small hand with the bottom
figure extended.<br>
>>> Other records for this title go straight from senal to por
with no<br>
>>> indication of an omission. My reading of DCRB 0F and
DCRM(B) 0G1.2<br>
>>> is that I should provide a cataloger's description of the
hand in brackets.<br>
>>><br>
>>> There is a common term for this symbol; can anyone tell me
what it is?<br>
>>><br>
>>> Now the point that makes all this relevant to this list is
that<br>
>>> DCRM(B)<br>
>>> 0F1.2 says to give interpolations into the title area in the
language<br>
>>> of the publication. Does this mean that the
cataloger's description<br>
>>> should be in Spanish? Or not? In either case, an
example might be a good idea.<br>
>>><br>
>>> If the description should be in Spanish, any suggestions on
what the<br>
>>> terminology should be?<br>
>>><br>
>>> Thank you.<br>
>>><br>
>>> In puzzlement,<br>
>>> Larry
Creider<br>
>>><br>
>>> Laurence S. Creider, Ph.D., M.S.L.S.<br>
>>> Head, General Cataloging Unit<br>
>>> New Mexico State University<br>
>>> Las Cruces, NM 88003<br>
>>> Work: 505-646-4707<br>
>>> Fax: 505-646-7477<br>
>>> lcreider@lib.nmsu.edu<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>> ____________________________________________<br>
>><br>
>> Manon Théroux<br>
>> Authority Control Librarian<br>
>> Catalog Department<br>
>> Yale University Library<br>
>> P.O. Box 208240<br>
>> New Haven, CT 06520-8240<br>
>><br>
>> 203-432-8376 (tel)<br>
>> 203-432-7231 (fax)<br>
>> manon.theroux@yale.edu<br><br>
Laurence S. Creider, Ph.D., M.S.L.S.<br>
Head, General Cataloging Unit<br>
New Mexico State University<br>
Las Cruces, NM 88003<br>
Work: 505-646-4707<br>
Fax: 505-646-7477<br>
lcreider@lib.nmsu.edu</font></blockquote></body>
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