The issue goes beyond the particular case of the ESTC citation forms, doesn't it? Are the general instructions in SCF IV.F. going to be revised as well? What about the ISTC citation forms, won't they need revision?
<br><br>btw, if we end up keeping the qualifier, here are more arguments for dropping the hyphen: the text of SCF itself uses "online" not "on-line" and when we qualify uniform title headings in X30 fields, we use "(Online)" not "(On-line)".
<br><br>-Manon<br><br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 9/6/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Jane Gillis</b> <<a href="mailto:jane.gillis@yale.edu">jane.gillis@yale.edu</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
<font size="3">I also vote for just "ESTC" without any
qualifier. At Yale, we have been using the simple "ESTC"
since last year when we had to make a decision of what to do when ESTC in
RLIN went away.<br><span class="sg"><br>
Jane</span></font><div><span class="e" id="q_114dc497f01cdf81_2"><font size="3"><br><br>
At 03:19 PM 9/6/2007 Thursday-0400, Johnson, Elizabeth L.
wrote:<br>
</font><blockquote type="cite"><font size="3">I also favor the simpler
ESTC" with no qualifer.<br><br>
If we do have to have a qualifer, I definitely would want
"oline" and not "on-line."<br><br>
Elizabeth Johnson<br><br>
Quoting Robert Maxwell <<a href="mailto:robert_maxwell@byu.edu" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">robert_maxwell@byu.edu</a>>:<br><br>
</font><blockquote type="cite"><font size="3">I absolutely agree about
"online", not "on-line", if we are going to<br>
qualify. The hyphenated form is obsolete.<br><br>
But I also favor more Deborah's solution of yesterday and Richard's<br>
suggestion today--simply "ESTC" with no qualifier.<br><br>
Bob<br><br>
<br>
Robert L. Maxwell<br>
Special Collections and Ancient Languages Catalog Librarian<br>
Genre/Form Authorities Librarian<br>
6728 Harold B. Lee Library<br>
Brigham Young University<br>
Provo, UT 84602<br>
(801)422-5568<br><br>
</font><blockquote type="cite"><font size="3">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>
[<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]</font></blockquote><font size="3">On<br>
</font><blockquote type="cite"><font size="3">Behalf Of Deborah J. Leslie<br>
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 10:37 AM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:ElizRob@alum.emory.edu" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">ElizRob@alum.emory.edu</a>; DCRM Revision Group List<br>
Subject: RE: RE: [DCRM-L] Citing ESTC<br><br>
This makes sense.<br><br>
I question the hyphen. Standard citation forms gives Chicago manual
of<br>
style as its authority, and the Chicago manual of style gives the
11th<br>
ed. Of Webster's collegiate dictionary as its authority for
spelling.<br>
And Webster's has "online.<br><br>
We submitted to this authority when writing DCRM(B), and I
suggest</font></blockquote><font size="3">that<br>
</font><blockquote type="cite"><font size="3">SCF also submit to this
authority.<br>
__________________________<br>
Deborah J. Leslie, M.A., M.L.S.<br>
Head of Cataloging<br>
Folger Shakespeare Library<br>
201 East Capitol St., S.E.<br>
Washington, D.C. 20003<br>
202.675-0369<br>
<a href="mailto:djleslie@folger.edu" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">djleslie@folger.edu</a> |
<a href="http://www.folger.edu" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.folger.edu</a>
<br><br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>
[<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]</font></blockquote><font size="3">On<br>
</font><blockquote type="cite"><font size="3">Behalf Of Elizabeth
Robinson<br>
Sent: Thursday, 06 September, 2007 12:12<br>
To: <a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a><br>
Subject: Fwd: RE: [DCRM-L] Citing ESTC<br><br>
Here's the follow-up. The present proposal is for all<br>
the old, out-of-date citation forms (BLAISE, RLIN,<br>
microfiche [both editions], and CD-ROM) to remain<br>
noted in SCF as background info for present records<br>
that have such in their 510s (my suggestion). But for<br>
new work, the citation form would be<br><br>
ESTC (on-line)<br><br>
As noted yesterday, this was agreed to by Henry Snyder<br>
and Juliet McLaren, the initial question of what form<br>
for post-RLIN ESTC raised by Alan Degutis of AAS.<br>
Moira Goff at BL was also consulted.<br><br>
Some rationale from Henry: "It occurs to me there<br>
might be another alternative, ESTC (online). There are<br>
several hundred accounts working off our webpage. It<br>
is the same file, if you like a generic one,<br>
accessible through two webpages, bl and ucr. This<br>
would cover both or any other form of access that<br>
might be devised in the future. What we really want to<br>
indicate is the information is derived from the online<br>
access and implicit is the fact that it is under<br>
constant revision ..."<br><br>
Juliet suggested (and Henry later agreed) to the<br>
hyphenated "on-line".<br><br>
I have not yet moved this forward through CPSO and<br>
CDS, so if there is anything further, Randal, would<br>
you please cc me at the <a href="mailto:erob@loc.gov" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">erob@loc.gov</a> address on the<br>
final verdict?<br><br>
Thanks much.<br><br>
<br>
Elizabeth Robinson<br>
Team Leader<br>
Rare Book Team<br>
Special Materials Cataloging Division<br>
Library of Congress<br>
<a href="mailto:erob@loc.gov" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">erob@loc.gov</a><br><br>
<br><br>
<br><br>
<br>
--- Elizabeth Robinson <<a href="mailto:vava_22304@yahoo.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">vava_22304@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br><br>
> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 17:48:14 -0700 (PDT)<br>
> From: Elizabeth Robinson <<a href="mailto:vava_22304@yahoo.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">vava_22304@yahoo.com</a>><br>
> Subject: RE: [DCRM-L] Citing ESTC<br>
> To: DCRM Revision Group List <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>
><br>
> Dear all,<br>
><br>
> Henry Snyder and Juliet McLaren made a formal<br>
> revised<br>
> submission for ESTC some months ago. I can tell you<br>
> what form they asked for on tomorrow when I have<br>
> access to my work files. As the maintenance editor<br>
> for<br>
> _Standard citations_, I basically insure submissions<br>
> meet the criteria listed in Working Principles and<br>
> the<br>
> final forms get to CDS for an update to _Standard<br>
> citations_ on Catalogers Desktop.<br>
><br>
> After I tell you what Henry and Juliet proposed, if<br>
> any of you have objections to the proposed form, I<br>
> suggest that you contact the two of them for further<br>
> deliberation. And, of course, if there is no<br>
> problem,<br>
> I will go ahead with the proposed forms.<br>
><br>
> Stay tuned.<br>
><br>
> Elizabeth Robinson<br>
> Team Leader<br>
> Rare Book Team<br>
> Special Materials Cataloging Division<br>
> Library of Congress<br>
> <a href="mailto:erob@loc.gov" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">erob@loc.gov</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> --- "Deborah J. Leslie" <<a href="mailto:DJLeslie@FOLGER.edu" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">DJLeslie@FOLGER.edu</a>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> > Will,<br>
> ><br>
> > Although I was arguing the other way in the DCRM-L<br>
> > discussion, I have<br>
> > been persuaded by the arguments to just use<br>
> "ESTC,"<br>
> > which is what I've<br>
> > been doing since. One problem I ran across was<br>
> that<br>
> > I access the ESTC<br>
> > database most often through the STAR interface<br>
> > rather than the BL<br>
> > interface, and it just seemed too complicated and<br>
> > not very helpful to<br>
> > try to distinguish between them.<br>
> ><br>
> > How about this for a proposal: Use "ESTC" alone
in<br>
> > the 510 for any<br>
> > citation of the online database, whether from<br>
> > Blaiseline, RLIN, or the<br>
> > BL, while the CD-ROM and the microfilm versions<br>
> > should be qualified.<br>
> ><br>
> > __________________________<br>
> > Deborah J. Leslie, M.A., M.L.S.<br>
> > Head of Cataloging<br>
> > Folger Shakespeare Library<br>
> > 201 East Capitol St., S.E.<br>
> > Washington, D.C. 20003<br>
> > 202.675-0369<br>
> > <a href="mailto:djleslie@folger.edu" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">djleslie@folger.edu</a> |
<a href="http://www.folger.edu" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.folger.edu</a>
<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > -----Original Message-----<br>
> > From: <a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a><br>
> >
[<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>] On<br>
> > Behalf Of Will Evans<br>
> > Sent: Wednesday, 05 September, 2007 09:44<br>
> > To: 'DCRM Revision Group List'<br>
> > Subject: [DCRM-L] Citing ESTC<br>
> ><br>
> > Has any consensus been reached as to how we should<br>
> > cite ESTC. I checked<br>
> > the<br>
> > RBMS archives, but I didn't find anything<br>
> > conclusive.<br>
> ><br>
> > Thanks in advance,<br>
> ><br>
> > Will<br>
> ><br>
> > BTW Kudos to all involved in the elegant and<br>
> > user-friendly redesign of<br>
> > the<br>
> > RBMS website!<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
><br>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<br>
> > Will Evans<br>
> > Rare Materials Catalog Librarian<br>
> > Biography & History Bibliographer<br>
> > Boston Athenaeum<br>
> > 10 1/2 Beacon Street<br>
> > Boston, MA 02108<br>
> ><br>
> > Telephone: (617) 227-0270, ext. 243<br>
> > Fax: (617) 227-5266<br>
> >
<a href="http://www.bostonathenaeum.org/" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
http://www.bostonathenaeum.org/</a><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
><br>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^</font></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></span></div></div></blockquote><div><br>Manon Théroux<br>Head, Cataloging & Metadata Services<br>George Mason University
<br>Fenwick Library, MSN 2FL<br>4400 University Drive<br>Fairfax, VA 22030<br>703-993-2313 (phone)<br>703-993-2263 (fax) <br></div><br></div><br>