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<DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#000080 size=2><SPAN class=875094422-30112007>I am
forwarding relevant bits of my correspondence with Paul Needham re my query
about whether books printed on vellum have bibliographical format. With
permission. In direct (not reverse) chronological order. The answer to this
simple question turned out to be not simple at all.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=blue size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">__________________________</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=blue><SPAN style="COLOR: blue"> <BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Verdana
color=blue size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Deborah J. Leslie,
M.A., M.L.S.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=blue><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">
<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Verdana color=blue size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Head of
Cataloging</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=blue><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">
<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Verdana color=blue size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Folger Shakespeare
Library</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=blue><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">
<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Verdana color=blue size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">201 East Capitol
St., S.E.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=blue><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">
<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Verdana color=blue size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Washington, D.C.
20003</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=blue><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">
<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Verdana color=blue size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">202.675-0369</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=blue><SPAN style="COLOR: blue"> <BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Verdana
color=blue size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">djleslie@folger.edu
| <A href="http://www.folger.edu">http://www.folger.edu</A> </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1><FONT face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><BR><SPAN
class=875094422-30112007><FONT face=Verdana> </P>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana><SPAN class=203451623-16112007><FONT color=#000080><FONT
face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Deborah J. Leslie
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, 16 November, 2007 18:18<BR><B>To:</B> 'Paul Needham
(needham@princeton.edu)'<BR><B>Subject:</B> FW: [DCRM-L] Format for
vellum?</FONT><BR><BR>Dear Paul,</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080><SPAN
class=203451623-16112007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=203451623-16112007><FONT color=#000080><SPAN
class=875094422-30112007><...> </SPAN>I am appending a little query I
posted to the rare materials cataloging group. The book in question is a French
book of hours, STC 15889.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080><SPAN
class=203451623-16112007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080><SPAN class=203451623-16112007>Cheers,
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080><SPAN
class=203451623-16112007>Deborah</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
color=#000080> </FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
class=875094422-30112007> </SPAN>-----Original Message-----<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Paul S. Needham
[mailto:needham@Princeton.EDU] <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, 19 November, 2007
16:27<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Deborah J.
Leslie<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: [DCRM-L]
Format for vellum?</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Verdana><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
class=875094422-30112007><...> </SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I see
I will follow this up with a question in return.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Let me
give my immediate response to the issues below, and especially re STC 15889 /
Goff H-422 / Duff 195.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Those
bibliographies all describe this edition as an 8vo, but I am uncertain whether
this is correct. It seems that all the surviving copies are on vellum (you,
Rylands, Morgan, Princeton [a wreck, 55 leaves only]) [ISTC also cites a copy at
Stonyhurst College – if so, it was apparently not in the sale of Stonyhurst
incunables, Soth. London 18 June 2003], and the diagnosis of format for books
printed on vellum can be quite difficult. There are a good many Paris-printed
Horae with issues both on vellum and on paper; STC 15889 may well have had a
paper issue, but if so, it seems not to survive. Where there are both vellum and
paper copies, we can say confidently that the paper format defines the vellum
format.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">One
example I know well is Goff H-359, possibly the earliest Pigouchet Book of
Hours: I catalogued a copy sold Soth. NYC 6 June 1993, lot 26, and PML bought
it. That copy was printed on paper (and is also entirely unrubricated, so it
makes an excellent “study piece” on how a Book of Hours is more or less unusable
without rubrication). In the standard literature, such as IISTC etc., this
edition is always referred to as an 8vo; but because I could study the paper, I
can say definitively that it is a 4to, each quire of 8 leaves consisting of 2
sheets.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">As for STC
15889: I do wonder whether this might be a 4to, with each quire of 8 leaves made
up of 2 sheets of vellum / paper. The Princeton “wreck” is very unrevealing, but
its leaf height is difficult (for the incunable period) for an 8vo: 17.4 cm, and
with the upper margin somewhat close-cut so that the uncut leaf would definitely
have been larger. That is too large for Chancery, and I think also too large for
Median. And yet, if it had been printed on Royal sheets, the leaf ht. would be
25 cm or more, and this copy has certainly not been cut down that much! On the
other hand, this dimension is easily understandable for a rather cut-down
(Chancery) 4to.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">So, my
question: what are the leaf dimensions of the Folger copy, and how wide are the
margins at top, side and bottom?</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Because it
is a Paris Book of Hours with movable borderpieces, one can actually, in
principle, “diagnose” whether it is a 4to, with 4-page formes, or an 8vo, with
8-page formes, even without a paper copy. If you find the same borderpiece used
twice in a putative 8-page forme, then that forme never existed, and so you have
to conclude that the edition was a 4to (though here too you have to test to make
sure that you don’t get the same borderpiece(s) twice in one forme.) If you’re
tempted, please have a go. The Princeton “wreck” is difficult for this, because
there is not a single fully intact quire in the entire volume. Nonetheless,
there are (quite ugly) photostat replacements for all the missing leaves, so I
just might make my own investigation, then we can compare
results.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Paul
Needham</SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Scheide
Library</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Princeton
University Library</SPAN></FONT></P>
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size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">1
Washington Road</SPAN></FONT></P>
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size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Princeton
NJ </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">08544</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">609-258
3241</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">needham@princeton.edu<BR><SPAN
class=875094422-30112007><FONT
face=Verdana>[DJL] </FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
class=875094422-30112007></SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Verdana><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
class=875094422-30112007></SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </P><FONT face=Verdana><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
class=875094422-30112007>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Deborah J. Leslie
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, 27 November, 2007 17:41<BR><B>To:</B> 'Paul S.
Needham'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [DCRM-L] Format for vellum?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia">Paul,</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia">I’ve had a go with a
measuring tape. </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia">Leaf size: 172 x
103.5 mm</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia">[measured i3r] Top
and fore-edge borders: 4 mm</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia">Border bottom: 29
mm</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia">Deborah</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-ALIGN: center"
align=center><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Paul S. Needham
[mailto:needham@Princeton.EDU] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, 30 November, 2007
17:31<BR><B>To:</B> Deborah J. Leslie<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [DCRM-L] Format for
vellum?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Deborah,<?xml:namespace
prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"
/><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Very many thanks, this
is very helpful. I will add leaf dims. of the Rylands and PML copies. I’m
getting the *<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">ghost</SPAN></B>* of an idea,
but first have to see if those copies fit the rather “slender” pattern of the
Folger and <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place
w:st="on">Princeton</st1:place> copies.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I now think this ed.
really has to have been printed as an 8vo – I’ve just started doing some tests,
based on the appearances, page by page, of the various borderpieces, and I’m
getting the sense that there are no “forme
conflicts”.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Mostly, I’m glad the
overall question arose. I’ve been shifting around for some while with the
general question of formats for books printed (only, or as fart as we know) on
vellum, and this one test case is helping me to concentrate a
bit.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Verdana><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
class=875094422-30112007><...> </SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
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