<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:x="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:excel" xmlns:p="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:powerpoint" xmlns:a="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:access" xmlns:dt="uuid:C2F41010-65B3-11d1-A29F-00AA00C14882" xmlns:s="uuid:BDC6E3F0-6DA3-11d1-A2A3-00AA00C14882" xmlns:rs="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:rowset" xmlns:z="#RowsetSchema" xmlns:b="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:publisher" xmlns:ss="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:spreadsheet" xmlns:c="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:component:spreadsheet" xmlns:odc="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:odc" xmlns:oa="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:activation" xmlns:html="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:q="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/" xmlns:D="DAV:" xmlns:x2="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/excel/2003/xml" xmlns:ois="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/ois/" xmlns:dir="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/directory/" xmlns:ds="http://www.w3.org/2000/09/xmldsig#" xmlns:dsp="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/dsp" xmlns:udc="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema" xmlns:sub="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/2002/1/alerts/" xmlns:ec="http://www.w3.org/2001/04/xmlenc#" xmlns:sp="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/" xmlns:sps="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:udcxf="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/xmlfile" xmlns:wf="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/workflow/" xmlns:mver="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/markup-compatibility/2006" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns:mrels="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/package/2006/relationships" xmlns:ex12t="http://schemas.microsoft.com/exchange/services/2006/types" xmlns:ex12m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/exchange/services/2006/messages" xmlns:Z="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" xmlns:st="" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
h1
{mso-style-priority:9;
mso-style-link:"Heading 1 Char";
margin-top:24.0pt;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
page-break-after:avoid;
font-size:14.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#365F91;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoPlainText, li.MsoPlainText, div.MsoPlainText
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Plain Text Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black;}
p.MsoNoSpacing, li.MsoNoSpacing, div.MsoNoSpacing
{mso-style-priority:1;
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph
{mso-style-priority:34;
margin-top:0in;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:.5in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black;}
span.Heading1Char
{mso-style-name:"Heading 1 Char";
mso-style-priority:9;
mso-style-link:"Heading 1";
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#365F91;
font-weight:bold;}
span.PlainTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Plain Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Plain Text";
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle22
{mso-style-type:personal;}
span.EmailStyle23
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I completely agree with you, Donald, about Bleiler and Reginald.
I think this sort of laconic citation is horrible, and I do do science fiction
and have no idea what they are. I think, however, the argument that has been
put forward is that “ESTC” is <i>not</i> laconic, given the
arguments that have already been made, and additionally given that the database
itself refers to itself as “ESTC” (see its main page). I don’t
think anybody’s arguing in favor of keeping those impossible Bleilers and
Reginalds. It’s a matter of judgment on what’s laconic and what’s
not.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I also don’t agree that catalogers should not be consulted
on this question (i.e. we are the “wrong” focus group), since we
are the ones who will have to do a great deal of work to revise tens of
thousands of records (at least in my catalog I want all my records citing
sources like this to appear in a uniform way since they’re indexed) if a
change is made. Balancing the benefits of a change (if any) against the amount
of work needed to effect the change, is always appropriate. So catalogers are “a”
right focus group to consult. Several of us have also pointed out that we are
not the <i>only</i> group that should be consulted, and I hope this question
will find its way to exlibris (perhaps with a summary of the cataloger point of
view, if one exists).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Bob<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Robert L. Maxwell<br>
Head, Special Collections and Metadata Catalog Dept.<br>
6728 Harold B. Lee Library<br>
Brigham Young University<br>
Provo, UT 84602<br>
(801)422-5568</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu] <b>On Behalf Of </b>dfarren<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 09, 2008 6:11 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'DCRM Revision Group List'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] ESTC and the revision of SCF<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>In the face of UNITED OPPOSITION from YOU CATALOGUERS, I
argue in favor of the expanded form, "English short title catalogue,"
thinking that the purpose of citations is to serve the ignorant, not the
knowledgeable. The knowledgeable know not only what ESTC means but also that a
relevant publication will be cited in ESTC without being told so. There is
nothing wrong with being ignorant when out of one's field. For instance, I
recently encountered a book by a poet that was cited (in a bookseller's catalogue,
granted) as "Bleiler ..." and "Reginald ..." Given such
laconic citations I had to take the trouble to educate myself that these works
are bibliographies of science fiction. I think of the author in question as a
poet without knowing anything about science fiction, but those who think of the
author as a writer of science fiction know immediately what Bleiler and
Reginald are. I would have been helped by an expanded citation, the
knowledgeable of science fiction didn’t need help.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>My second argument is that YOU CATALOGUERS are not the
right focus group to consult on this question .<span style='font-size:7.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Donald Farren<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>4009 Bradley Lane<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Chevy Chase, MD 20815-5238<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>dfarren@concentric.net<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>voice 301.951.9479<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>fax 301.951.3898<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>mobile 301.768.8972<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu] On Behalf
Of Randal Brandt<br>
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 11:46 AM<br>
To: DCRM-L<br>
Subject: [DCRM-L] ESTC and the revision of SCF<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>As those of you who follow the work of the RBMS
Bibliographic Standards <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Committee already know, a revision of _Standard Citation
Forms for Rare <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Book Cataloging_ (SCF) is underway (please see the agenda
and draft <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>minutes from the Bib Standards meeting held in Anaheim in
June 2008 for <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>more information: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>http://www.rbms.info/committees/bibliographic_standards/conference-docs/index.html)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>One of the key principles of the revision is to make
citations used in <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>bibliographic records (in MARC tag 510) more
understandable to <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>researchers (and, by extension, other catalogers). In
order to do that, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>citations will be based, as much as possible, on the
AACR2 entries for <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>the works being cited. Current single-name or single-word
citations will <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>be expanded.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>However, at the Anaheim meeting, a lively discussion took
place over the <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>citation for the ESTC. The room was basically split over
what to do <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>about it. Many favored leaving it alone; "ESTC"
is so widely known that <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>the existing citation is sufficient. Others favored
following the new, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>AACR2-based principle and expanding the citation to
"English short title <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>catalogue."<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>At the meeting, it was decided to take the ESTC debate to
this list and <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>see what the wider rare materials cataloging community
thought about it. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I'll get the discussion rolling by stating my own
opinion.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I am in the camp that believes that "ESTC" is
OK as it is. The acronym <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>is sufficiently well-known and does not need to be
spelled out. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Researchers and catalogers alike all know what it means.
More <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>importantly, a title keyword search on "ESTC"
in OCLC WorldCat retrieves <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>the bibliographic record for the resource.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>What do the rest of you think?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Randal Brandt<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Chair, ACRL/RBMS Bibliographic Standards Committee<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>__________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Randal Brandt<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Principal Cataloger<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>The Bancroft Library<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>(510) 643-2275<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>rbrandt@library.berkeley.edu<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>http://bancroft.berkeley.edu<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>"It's hard enough to remember my opinions without <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>remembering my reasons for them"--The Streets.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>