<font size="4"><font face="garamond,serif">Jackie et al.,</font></font><div><font size="4"><font face="garamond,serif"><br></font></font></div><div><font size="4"><font face="garamond,serif">The question isn't so much whether MARC per se is on its last legs. If we think of it as simply a set of tags or information containers, which already exists as an XML DTD (have I got that right?), then what we're really talking about is the degree of granularity necessary to enable or facilitate the distinction of entities basic to the taxonomy that we've defined via FRBR, and ways to incorporate relevant information that cannot be developed from the item alone.</font></font></div>
<div><font size="4"><font face="garamond,serif"><br></font></font></div><div><font size="4"><font face="garamond,serif">I spoke of edition/issue/impression/state, but these are all subclasses of "manifestation" in the specific vocabulary of the printed book. If we bear in mind that the preceding FRBR terms "work" and "expression" are essentially abstract, we see the importance of clear understanding of manifestations, actualizations in the absence of which there is neither work nor expression. Where manifestations differ, our knowledge of the work and its expressions encompasses variations that must be accounted for, unless we embrace ignorance as a critical strategy (otherwise known as "retiring from the field"). This is true for all formats, and the virtue of FRBR is that it enables to discuss these same issues across formats, in which they are equally important--and in our work foundational.</font></font></div>
<div><font size="4"><font face="garamond,serif"><br></font></font></div><div><font face="'courier new', monospace">RICHARD NOBLE : RARE BOOKS CATALOGER : JOHN HAY LIBRARY : BROWN UNIVERSITY<br>PROVIDENCE, RI 02912 : 401-863-1187/FAX 863-3384 : <a href="mailto:RICHARD_NOBLE@BROWN.EDU" target="_blank">RICHARD_NOBLE@BROWN.EDU</a> </font><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 12:01 PM, dooleyj <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dooleyj@oclc.org">dooleyj@oclc.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div>
<font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">I’m interested to know whether the RBMS Bib Standards Committee has investigated possible MARBI receptiveness, and interest from the cataloging community, in a field for supplied edition statements. And given that there is growing consensus that MARC is on its last legs, not to mention the demise of the 503, do you have a sense that a new field is a likely solution? -Jackie<br>
<br>
</span><font size="4"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">-- <br>
Jackie Dooley<br>
Program Officer<br>
OCLC Research and the RLG Partnership<br>
<br>
949.492.5060 (work/home) -- Pacific Time<br>
949.295.1529 (mobile)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><span style="font-size:10pt"><hr align="CENTER" size="3" width="95%"><b>From: </b>Deborah Leslie <<a href="http://djleslie@folger.edu" target="_blank">djleslie@folger.edu</a>><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>DCRM-L <<a href="http://dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Mon, 15 Nov 2010 11:58:07 -0500<br>
<b>To: </b>DCRM-L <<a href="http://dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><div class="im"><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [DCRM-L] RDA Follow-up to "Cataloging Defensively" Webinar re edition statements<br>
<br>
</div></span><div class="im"><font color="#1F497D"><font size="4"><span style="font-size:12pt">Richard's got it right. A distinct MARC tag will allow, not only easy disambiguation of similar manifestations, but more precise display options, such as square brackets for those who might want to preserve the distinction between transcribed and supplied text. <br>
<br>
</span></font></font><span style="font-size:10pt"><br>
</span></div></font><div class="im"><span style="font-size:10pt"><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><b>From:</b> <a href="http://dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a> [<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Noble, Richard<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 15 November, 2010 10:12<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Revision Group List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] RDA Follow-up to "Cataloging Defensively" Webinar re edition statements<br>
</font></span><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"> <br>
</span></font></font><font size="5"><font face="Garamond"><span style="font-size:13pt">The RDA rule over-ruled in the Policy Statement is rather an absurd one, and presumes that the cataloguing agency is a large one, with numerous employees well enough versed in various languages to advise the uncertain cataloguer. There is, of course, an inherent conflict in this use of the 250 field, which is normally based on transcription from the item, when the contents are supplied as editorial invention. So now, per policy, we compromise by making the bracketed statement look like a transcription--that is, we fake it. (This is complicated by the fact that in many languages there is no unambiguous terminology that can be applied, in cataloguing books, to the edition/issue/impression taxonomy, without further qualification and explanation. What is an "edicion"?)<br>
</span></font></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt"><br>
</span></font><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"> <br>
</span></font></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt"><br>
</span></font><font size="5"><font face="Garamond"><span style="font-size:13pt">Notes are less restricted, and a note in the language of the agency is necessary to back up the 250. As has been frequently noted concerning this topic, the invalidation of the 503 field has made it impossible to isolate a search for edition-related terms to a specific field, whether manually or by way of de-duping protocols.<br>
</span></font></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt"><br>
</span></font><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"> <br>
</span></font></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt"><br>
</span></font><font size="5"><font face="Garamond"><span style="font-size:13pt">While it is not an immediate solution (cheating is, and I'm glad you've done it, however inadvertently), I do think that the definition of a new, distinct tag (e.g. 251) for a cataloguer-supplied edition statement in the language of the agency, would be a useful addition, very much on the order of the 246 "other title", which can be anything from any source that the cataloguer thinks will be useful (perhaps not even requiring the 250 as well). If a statement is desperately wanted in the language of the piece, let it be supplied by way of a parallel record created by an agency that writes its records in that language. Some sort of generic, Esperanto-like set of abbreviations would be useful, but I dare say that now meets a solid RDA roadblock, they being not immediately understanded of the people<br>
</span></font></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt"><br>
</span></font><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"> <br>
</span></font></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt"><br>
</span></font><font size="5"><font face="Garamond"><span style="font-size:13pt">This is not a trivial matter, if we want to take FRBR at all seriously: we are talking about the identification/disambiguation of manifestations. Or does this really not matter, in the end? Do we just make a fudge of more or less similar manifestations? I.e., if it doesn't matter to those who don't understand the actual distinctions, whether or not expressed by way of abbreviation, then does it not matter at all?<br>
</span></font></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt"><br>
</span></font><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"> <br>
</span></font></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt"><br>
</span></font><font size="5"><font face="Garamond"><span style="font-size:13pt">FRBR looks to the creation of a bibliographical database, not just a catalogue, but real bibliographies cannot be constructed with the kinds of restrictions that we meet with in rules primarily directed to the purpose of homogenizing master records for use in unmediated copy-cataloguing.<br>
</span></font></font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt"><br>
</span></font><font size="5"><font face="Garamond"><span style="font-size:13pt"><br>
</span></font></font></div><font size="4"><div class="im"><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:12pt">RICHARD NOBLE : RARE BOOKS CATALOGER : JOHN HAY LIBRARY : BROWN UNIVERSITY<br>
PROVIDENCE, RI 02912 : 401-863-1187/FAX 863-3384 : <a href="http://RICHARD_NOBLE@BROWN.EDU" target="_blank">RICHARD_NOBLE@BROWN.EDU</a> <br>
</span></font></div><span style="font-size:12pt"><font face="Times New Roman"><div class="im"><br>
On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 8:38 AM, Schupbach, William <<a href="http://w.schupbach@wellcome.ac.uk" target="_blank">w.schupbach@wellcome.ac.uk</a>> wrote:<br>
"The RDA Library of Congress Policy Statement 2.5.1.4 is an almost exact<br>
restatement of AACR2 1.2B4, providing for a cataloger-supplied edition<br></div>
statement: ?LCPS for 2.5.1.4 <<a href="http://2.5.1.4" target="_blank">http://2.5.1.4</a>> : Recording Edition Statements: If a<div class="im"><br>
resource lacks an edition statement but it is known to contain<br>
significant changes from other editions, supply a brief statement in the<br>
language and script of the title proper and enclose it in square<br>
brackets.? LC Policy Statements (LCPSs) are the RDA parallels to AACR2<br>
LC Rule Interpretations (LCRIs)." (Jay Weitz)<br>
<br>
I had not noticed this before, but it means that, in most of the cases I<br>
deal with, I should have been writing those bracketed 250s in Latin. Has<br>
everybody else been doing this?<br>
<br>
William Schupbach<br>
Wellcome Library, 183 Euston Road, London NW1 2BE<br>
E-mail: <a href="http://w.schupbach@wellcome.ac.uk" target="_blank">w.schupbach@wellcome.ac.uk</a><br>
<br>
Visit the Wellcome Library Blog at: <a href="http://wellcomelibrary.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://wellcomelibrary.blogspot.com</a><br>
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