<font size="4"><font face="garamond,serif">Is it clear that what you're discussing is the <i>default</i> rules? If it's possible to establish the printer's usage quickly and certainly, then, in changing case, we follow that usage for the target case. There are various gothic and swash I's that look like J, where the printer might well use initial i in lower case. The main principle is to determine, for each character in each of its possible positions, whether one is looking at alternate graphic representation of the same "orthographic entity" (pedantic humor alert...) or orthographically distinct characters. </font></font><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: garamond, serif; font-size: large; ">(This can get weird: some C17 German printers followed pronunciation in e.g. "qvam", "...qve" in modern usage of u/v.)</span><div>
<font size="4"><font face="garamond,serif"><br></font></font></div><div><font size="4"><font face="garamond,serif">The whole thing is wretchedly artificial, in any case. It conveys no information that we would normally concern ourselves with--we don't normally include typography notes on details of the printer's alphabet; and it can obscure information that transcription is otherwise intended to convey, since the actual character cannot always be unambiguously inferred from the transcription, absent such a note. This is not fully compensated by 246s for the title proper alone.</font></font></div>
<div><font size="4"><font face="garamond,serif"><br clear="all"></font></font><font face="'courier new', monospace">RICHARD NOBLE : RARE BOOKS CATALOGER : JOHN HAY LIBRARY : BROWN UNIVERSITY<br>PROVIDENCE, RI 02912 : 401-863-1187/FAX 863-3384 : <a href="mailto:RICHARD_NOBLE@BROWN.EDU" target="_blank">RICHARD_NOBLE@BROWN.EDU</a> </font><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 9:52 AM, Erin Blake <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:EBlake@folger.edu">EBlake@folger.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Thinking about this some more (and
with apologies to Deborah, since she’s not in her office, and I can’t
talk with her in person first) I’m back to thinking the existing wording <i>isn’t</i>
fine: "If the rules for capitalization require converting the letters <b>i/j</b>
or <b>u/v</b> to uppercase or lowercase, follow the pattern of usage in the
text” is technically correct, but misleading. Yes, follow the pattern of
use: if <b>J</b> needs to be converted to lowercase, the pattern of use happens
to always be <b>J</b> > <b>j</b> so it’s very easy to determine. But
it’s also true that patterns of use show <b>A</b> > <b>a</b>, <b>B</b>
> <b>b</b>, and so on. Mentioning <b>J</b> and <b>U</b> at all, when there’s
nothing special about them, is confusing.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">“If the rules for
capitalization require converting the letters <b>I</b> or <b>V</b> to lowercase,
or <b>i</b>, <b>j</b>, <b>u</b>, or <b>v</b> to uppercase, follow the pattern
of usage in the text” is also correct, but clearer. (Especially with the
comma added, as Margaret Nichols just pointed out). </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Additional possibility: expand
the sentence to clarify that conversion of case will sometimes, but not always,
involve changing the graph. That’s the point of DCRM(B) 0G2.2, but it
doesn’t explicitly say so. In other words, change it to: “If the
rules for capitalization require converting the letters <b>I</b> or <b>V</b> to
lowercase, or <b>i</b>, <b>j</b>, <b>u</b>, or <b>v</b> to uppercase, follow
the pattern of usage in the text to determine which graph to use.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> EB.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">
<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Deborah
J. Leslie<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 07, 2010 4:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Revision Group List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [DCRM-L] FW: Correction Re: DPC: Wording of i/j u/v conversion
inDCRM</span></p>
</div>
</div><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino Linotype","serif";color:#1F497D">Erin and I just spoke about this. The existing wording is
actually just fine; some of the confusion in this instance appears to arise the
fact that there are two types of conversion going on: converting case (e.g., I
to i), and converting graph while converting case (i.e., V to u). </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino Linotype","serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino Linotype","serif";color:#1F497D">Our solution: Add the note that uppercase J or U signals a
modern distribution in 0G2, to let people know at that point that they don't
need to look for usage in the text for that particular letter. (Keep in mind
that distinction of the letter J as its own letter, and of U as its own letter,
didn't necessarily happen at the same time.) That's probably enough, but if
people want even more guidance, add to the table "Uppercase letter to be
converted" in Appendix G: J </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">à</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino Linotype","serif";color:#1F497D"> j and U </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">à</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino Linotype","serif";color:#1F497D">
u </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#1F497D">_________________________</span><span style="color:#1F497D"> <br>
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#1F497D">Deborah J. Leslie, M.A.,
M.L.S. <br>
RBMS past chair 2010-2011 | Head of Cataloging, Folger Shakespeare Library <br>
201 East Capitol St., S.E. | Washington, D.C. 20003 | 202.675-0369 <br>
<a href="mailto:djleslie@folger.edu" target="_blank">djleslie@folger.edu</a> | <a href="http://www.folger.edu/" target="_blank">http://www.folger.edu</a>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino Linotype","serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino Linotype","serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino Linotype","serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">
<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Erin
Blake<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 07 December, 2010 15:48<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [DCRM-L] DPC: Wording of i/j u/v conversion in DCRM</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Last DPC of the season, if we're sticking to one a week: As
some of you know, this came up at the BSC meeting at Annual, when it became
clear that there was confusion about the phrase "If the rules for
capitalization require converting the letters <span>i/j</span>
or <span>u/v</span> to uppercase or lowercase..."
because, in fact, "uppercase or lowercase" aren't reciprocal here. It
will never be the case that an uppercase <b>J</b> or <b>U</b> will be converted
to lowercase, see footnote 26 in Appendix G, which reads "An uppercase<b>
J</b> or <b>U</b> in the source signals a modern distribution, in which <b>i</b>
and<b> j</b> are functioning as separate letters, as are <b>u</b> and <b>v</b>,
requiring no special consideration while converting case." </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Proposed change: replace the standard phrase as follows...</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Existing wording: If the rules for capitalization require
converting the letters<span> i/j</span> or <span>u/v</span> to uppercase or lowercase.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">New wording: If the rules for capitalization require
converting the letters<span> I</span> or <span>V</span> to lowercase or<span> i</span>, <span>j</span>, <span>u</span>, or <span>v</span> to uppercase.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Discussion is open to anyone through DCRM-L for one week.
BSC members will be asked to vote on the proposed change on December 14.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> EB.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">--------------------------------------------------</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Erin C. Blake, Ph.D. | Curator of Art &
Special Collections | Folger Shakespeare Library | 201
E. Capitol St. SE | Washington, DC 20003-1004 | office tel.
(202) 675-0323 | fax: (202) 675-0328 |
<a href="mailto:eblake@folger.edu" target="_blank">eblake@folger.edu</a> | <a href="http://www.folger.edu" target="_blank">www.folger.edu</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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</blockquote></div><br></div>