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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:3.0pt;margin-right:3.0pt;margin-bottom:.75pt'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks, Stephen! Since area 8 comes up pretty much never in the picture world, I completely forgot about it. I think your second formulation does the job best:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>7A1.1.</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> Notes qualify and amplify the formal description, and are especially </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>important</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> for recording</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> types of </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>information not accounted for in other areas of the description.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I think it needs to be "not accounted for" (or "not covered by") because "not included in" isn't quite accurate: lengthy titles <i>are</i> included in Area 1, for instance. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> EB.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Stephen A Skuce<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 27, 2011 1:52 PM<br><b>To:</b> DCRM Revision Group List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] DPC: minor wording change to 7A1.1 for clarity<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I agree that this is the way to go. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>But is it a good idea actively to exclude area 8 from this wording? I know; area 8 is description's poor relation, particularly in special materials cataloging, but it just seems odd to exclude a specific ISBD area from the rule. It makes it seem as if there were a positive reason for doing so.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Including area 8 might require more cumbersome wording, but it seems odd to exclude it entirely.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The easiest way to include it would be to revert to the "other areas" wording, and I don't know how terrible that would be. So I guess I prefer something closer to earlier iterations:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>7A1.1.</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> Notes qualify and amplify the formal description, and are especially </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>important</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> for recording</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> types of </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>information not included in other areas of the description.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>OR<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>7A1.1.</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> Notes qualify and amplify the formal description, and are especially </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>important</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> for recording</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> types of </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>information not accounted for in other areas of the description.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>But I can be swayed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Stephen<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Zinkham, Helena<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 27, 2011 12:51 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'DCRM Revision Group List'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] DPC: minor wording change to 7A1.1 for clarity<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Looks very good! (Thanks to all for assistance and patience in clarifying the wording.) -- Helena<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ryan Hildebrand<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 27, 2011 12:05 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'DCRM Revision Group List'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] DPC: minor wording change to 7A1.1 for clarity<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>This small change makes a big difference, and if a change is to be made, I think this is the way to go. -Ryan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Deborah J. Leslie<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 27, 2011 10:32 AM<br><b>To:</b> DCRM Revision Group List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] DPC: minor wording change to 7A1.1 for clarity<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Palatino Linotype","serif";color:#993366'>Yes, I think we're getting to the nub. The only change I <i>might</i> suggest is to replace "not covered by" with "not included in." Viz., </span><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>7A1.1.</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> Notes qualify and amplify the formal description, and are especially </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>important</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> for recording</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> types of </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>information not included in areas 1 through 6.</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Palatino Linotype","serif";color:#993366'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Palatino Linotype","serif";color:#993366'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Erin Blake<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, 27 May, 2011 10:39<br><b>To:</b> DCRM Revision Group List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] DPC: minor wording change to 7A1.1 for clarity<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ahaaaaa... now I think I’m getting it (after talking with Deborah off-line about this). Notes are especially important for recording information for which no provision is made elsewhere. It’s not that the rules exclude the information from the other areas, it’s that some types of information have no corresponding ISBD area. There <b>is</b> provision for recording a lengthy title in Area 1, so although you could also abridge it in area 1 and put the whole thing in a note, notes aren’t especially important for recording title information. There is no “attributions” area, or “bibliographic history” area, though, for example, so the note area is especially important for that type of information. <br><br>New proposed revision:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>7A1.1.</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> Notes qualify and amplify the formal description, and are especially </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>important</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> for recording</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> types of </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>information </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>not covered by areas 1 through 6</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<br><br> EB.<br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br>--------------------------------------------------</span><span style='color:#1F497D'> <br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Erin C. Blake, Ph.D. | Curator of Art & Special Collections | Folger Shakespeare Library | 201 E. Capitol St. SE | Washington, DC 20003-1004 | office tel. (202) 675-0323 | fax: (202) 675-0328 | eblake@folger.edu | www.folger.edu</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Deborah J. Leslie<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 23, 2011 2:23 PM<br><b>To:</b> DCRM Revision Group List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] DPC: minor wording change to 7A1.1 for clarity<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>The original text is really quite clumsy, but the problem with the proposed revisions is that it sounds like rules are doing the excluding. They are not; catalogers are doing the excluding on the basis of the rules. Is something like this better? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>7A1.1. Notes qualify and amplify the formal description, and <s>. They</s> are especially appropriate for recording information <b>not provided for in</b> <s>that rules exclude from</s> other areas of the description.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>That is (in case the bold and strikeout gets stripped)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>7A1.1. Notes qualify and amplify the formal description, and are especially appropriate for recording information not provided for in other areas of the description.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Palatino Linotype","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Karen Meyer-Roux<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, 23 May, 2011 12:25<br><b>To:</b> DCRM Revision Group List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] DPC: minor wording change to 7A1.1 for clarity<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>I find Manon's sentences to be the clearest. Shouldn't the "<strong><span style='font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>may</span></strong>" be omitted though, to keep in line with the more direct meaning of the original sentence Erin was working on, so as to have the following: <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>7A1.1. Notes qualify and amplify the formal description. They are<br>especially appropriate for recording information that rules exclude from other areas of the description.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>Karen<br><br>>>> Manon Theroux <manon.theroux@gmail.com> 5/21/2011 9:55 AM >>><br>The DCRM(B) sentence is a carryover from DCRB. I never found it<br>confusing. But, I guess some do? Responding to Lenore's suggested<br>wording:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>