<html><head><base href="x-msg://908/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Deborah - <div><br></div><div>What descriptor(s) do you recommend in place of “morocco”? Especially given the difficulty determining whether a given skin might be goat or sheep, or knowing what the binding trade at the time might have called it (and given that the term has long been in widespread use among book people of all sorts)?<div><br></div><div>I’m not advocating the use of the term, but if it is to be avoided or replaced, there needs to be a shared understanding of what any terms used in place of “morocco” actually refer to - which is where the Ligatus glossary, and particularly the photographs illustrating the terms, will be indispensable. Roberts and Etherington write in detail about many possibilities, but without standards to test examples against, it’s very difficult to be sure whether one is using any given term accurately.</div><div><br></div><div>I too eagerly look forward to the Ligatus glossary. I hope it will offer a hierarchy of terms, such that a cataloguer can use some general term in the absence of the ability (for whatever reason) to determine what animal the skin came from, or what tanning or graining method was used, or where the skin originated. <br><div><br></div><div>John Lancaster</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Jul 21, 2011, at 9:42 PM, Deborah J. Leslie wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: 'Bell MT'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Palatino Linotype', serif; color: rgb(33, 88, 104); ">Most of you will perhaps have seen this, but for those who haven't: it's one of the reasons I advise catalogers against using the binding descriptor "morocco." It has meant a number of things over time. In addition, there is a species continuum between sheep and goats. I am all anticipation of the binding glossary promised by NP.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="color: rgb(49, 132, 155); ">__________<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="color: rgb(49, 132, 155); ">Deborah J. Leslie, M.A., M.L.S. | Head of Cataloging, Folger Shakespeare Library<br></span><span style="color: rgb(49, 132, 155); "><a href="mailto:djleslie@folger.edu" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; "><span style="color: rgb(49, 132, 155); text-decoration: none; ">djleslie@folger.edu</span></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="color: rgb(49, 132, 155); ">| 202.675-0369 |<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="www.folger.edu" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; "><span style="color: rgb(49, 132, 155); text-decoration: none; ">www.folger.edu</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Palatino Linotype', serif; color: rgb(33, 88, 104); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">-----Original Message-----<br>From: Rare book and manuscripts [mailto:EXLIBRIS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU] On Behalf Of Nicholas Pickwoad<br>Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 04:20<br>To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:EXLIBRIS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">EXLIBRIS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU</a><br>Subject: Re: [EXLIBRIS-L] Seeking leather bookbinding ID references<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">I would like to inject a small note of warning into the discussion <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">about using modern samples of leather for the identification of <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">historic leathers used on books. The animals whose skins were used <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">have changed over the centuries, and the hairsheep that was one of the <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">most common sources of leathers for the booktrade will not feature <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">among modern samples. This is important for the identification of <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">skins on books, as it is these skins that are the hardest to identify <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">(calf and pig are, by comparison, quite straightforward) as the skins <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">of animals bearing coarse wool hairs as well a fine ones produce skins <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">that are virtually identical to goatskin. The modern sheep, bred <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">increasingly to eliminate the coarse wool hairs, has a skin that is <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">entirely different in appearance.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">The problem is compounded, not simplified, by the term 'morocco'. In <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">France the term 'maroquin' was used to describe the highest quality <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">skins of the type today found in northern Nigeria. Following the <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">traditional habit of the European leather trades, the skin was named <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">after the country from which it was shipped, in this case Morocco, <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">where the native-dyed skins or possibly undyed crusts, were given <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">final treatments, including dyeing, before export. It was for this <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">reason that the same skins were known as 'Turkey leather' in Britain, <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">as British merchants were only allowed to trade with the Ottoman <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">empire through the port of Smyrna (modern Izmir). The British leather <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">trade used the word 'morocco' for the skins traditionally thought to <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">have been procured in the 1720s for Edward Harley in Fez in an attempt <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">to make good the short supply of Turkey leather in the early <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">eighteenth century. The skins were bright and colourful and were <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">imported directly from Morocco (hence the name), but were taken from <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">hairsheep, not goats, and they have proved much less durable. The <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">English booktrade maintained the distinction between 'turkey' and <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">'morocco' leathers until at least the 1780s.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">Any sample book must, if it is to be helpful, use macro-photographs of <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">genuine period skins identified by experts in such matters, but when <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">Ronald Read (author of Ancient Skins, Parchments and Leathers, already <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">cited in this correspondence and still far and away the best book on <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">the subject currently available) admits that telling goat from <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">hairsheep skins can be impossible by visual examination only, we need <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">to be very careful in jumping to conclusions. Our ongoing work in the <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">Ligatus Research Centre on a glossary of bookbinding terms is to <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">include a set of such photographs, but that is, I am afraid, a year or <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">two away as yet.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">Nicholas Pickwoad<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">Professor Nicholas Pickwoad, River Farm, Great Witchingham,Norwich, <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">NR9 5NA.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; ">E-mail:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:npickwoad@paston.co.uk" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">npickwoad@paston.co.uk</a><o:p></o:p></div></div></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></body></html>