<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I hesitate to take issue with either Deborah or Richard, but I’d point out again that OCLC’s criteria for justification of a new record explicitly mention - as the only specific title evidence mentioned for rather than against creating a new record - difference in the title proper.<div><br></div><div>I’m also not sure why the textual or commercial history of a work or its manifestations should be so completely privileged over the manufacturing history. In fact, one reason for the creation of the specialized cataloguing rules we work with was specifically to provide more information about the physical (i.e. production) aspects of the books we catalogue. In this case, in addition to the two words on the title page that differ, there is some unspecified amount of variation in the preliminaries - perhaps only typographic and not textual, but nevertheless worth noting.</div><div><br></div><div>In other words, I’m not convinced that the distinctions here are irrelevant (despite agreeing with Richard’s final sentence) - relevance depends on who the “user” is imagined to be. (I’m actually as much interested in the comment that the printer’s practice is to spell the name “Willughbeij” - the form used in this variant.) I wonder if any of the copies of the 1743 reissue (or those with the 1740 index added, but without the 1743 cancel title) have the variant preliminaries.</div><div><br></div><div>If the record is properly crafted (in this case, I imagine that would mean with appropriate notes), I don’t see any danger that the distinguishing variations will be obscured.</div><div><br></div><div>Taxonomists in every field range from lumpers to splitters (terms coined by Darwin) - we see it every day in the way we and our colleagues structure our folders on our computers - and there will probably never be an end to it. This case strikes me as being on the border, and I guess I lean toward the splitters in this case. I think the differences are more interesting than the similarities.</div><div><br></div><div>John Lancaster</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On May 11, 2012, at 3:16 PM, Noble, Richard wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><font><font face="georgia,serif">I hesitate even more than Deborah to treat this as any sort of categorical variant.</font></font><div><font><font face="georgia,serif"><br></font></font></div><div><font><font face="georgia,serif">Essentially, issue and ideal copy (i.e. standard descriptive criteria for a distinct bibliographical entity) are coterminous. While the title page is a privileged--perhaps, in some cases and places, a somewhat over-privileged--element of the book, there is no difference of issue or edition here, and therefore, whether in OCLC or in a formal bibliography, no justification for a separate record or entry number. This is one bibliographical entity, which exhibits certain variant states. One sets up the description by choosing one of the states--perhaps arbitrarily--to serve as the main description, and notes the variant(s) which lie within the tolerances of ideal copy description.</font></font></div>
<div><font><font face="georgia,serif"><br></font></font></div><div><font><font face="georgia,serif">Another way of approaching this conceptually is to ask whether the variants are evidentially significant with respect to the textual or commercial history of the work as manifested in physical form. In this case, they only witness to some aspect of the manufacture of this particular manifestation--whether or not we understand quite what the witness is trying to tell us.</font></font></div>
<div><font><font face="georgia,serif"><br></font></font></div><div><font><font face="georgia,serif">Yet another approach is to ask oneself: What is the best way to tell the story of this body of books? Separate records involve much duplication of information, within which minor distinguishing variation may be almost completely obscured. In this case, it is better to say: Here's one edition/one issue, and here's a minor variation of minimal textual or historical significance that will appear in some copies. Use the 246 to make sure that your record doesn't get away from someone with one of the variants in hand (become an unknown known item).</font></font></div>
<div><font><font face="georgia,serif"><br></font></font></div><div><font><font face="georgia,serif">Maintain your taxonomy free of clutter, i.e. d</font></font><span style="font-family:georgia,serif">on't bother the user with irrelevant distinctions. </span><span style="font-family:georgia,serif">We've got problems enough with ill-advised attempts to FRBRize the bibliographical chaos that is OCLC, as necessary distinctions disappear in a cloud of unknowing.</span></div>
<div><font><font face="georgia,serif"><br clear="all"></font></font><font face="'courier new', monospace">RICHARD NOBLE : RARE BOOKS CATALOGER : JOHN HAY LIBRARY : BROWN UNIVERSITY<br>PROVIDENCE, RI 02912 : 401-863-1187/FAX 863-3384 : <a href="mailto:RICHARD_NOBLE@BROWN.EDU" target="_blank">RICHARD_NOBLE@BROWN.EDU</a> </font><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 1:23 PM, Deborah J. Leslie <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:DJLeslie@folger.edu" target="_blank">DJLeslie@folger.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d">My hesitation about creating a new record comes from several sources, most notably that my copy is clearly of the same setting of type--therefore the same edition--the differences
do not qualify it as a separate issue, and the normative basis for new records in DCRM(B) are different editions or issues, but not impressions or states.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d">As Jane W. says, there may be other copies that may actually match my state. It's worth pointing out, though, that my state isn't mentioned in George Keynes descriptive bibliography
of John Ray, and there's a penciled note in our copy that says "1st state of 1st ed." I'm inclined to make a new record. Thanks to those who replied! <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jane Stemp Wickenden<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 10 May 2012 17:47</span></p><div class="im"><br>
<b>To:</b> 'DCRM Revision Group List'<br>
</div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] (no subject)<u></u><u></u><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
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</div><div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Deborah,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Just some ideas not being able to hold comparative copies in front of me.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">If it were me, and I could definitely establish that the text is otherwise a match, I would add a note “Variant state of title page with transcription
Armigeri on title page, also some differences in preliminaries”. But if I couldn’t establish that it was a complete match, I would create a new record (is it not possible that it is a later state with the errata corrected into the text?)<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">How far into the [10] p. of preliminaries do the differences extend? Is it possible, for example, that gathers A-C could be described as cancels? (I
can’t make out the collation from the record). <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">I wonder if any of the many other recorded copies have actually the same version as yours, but have not noticed...<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Jane<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div><p><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:navy">Jane Wickenden<u></u><u></u></span></p><p><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:navy">Historic Collections Library<u></u><u></u></span></p><p><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:navy">Institute of Naval Medicine<u></u><u></u></span></p><p><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:navy">Alverstoke <u></u><u></u></span></p><p><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:navy">Gosport<u></u><u></u></span></p><p><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:navy">Hampshire<u></u><u></u></span></p><p><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:navy">PO12 2DL<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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</span></div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Deborah J. Leslie<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 10 May 2012 22:25<br>
<b>To:</b> 'DCRM Revision Group List'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [DCRM-L] (no subject)</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">I can't decide whether to create a new record.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif""><a href="http://estc.bl.uk/R7161" target="_blank">http://estc.bl.uk/R7161</a>
<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">The situation: I have in front of me a copy with the same setting of type as represented by the above record, but with a completely different setting of the t.p. and some resetting of the preliminaries.
This state seems to be unknown, and I suspect it's the earlier than either of the two states recognized in the ESTC record, since it has no errata at the end of the preface.
<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">The problem: In my copy, the title transcribes differently. "Francisci Willughbeij Armigeri" instead of "Francisci Willughbeii [but should be Willughbeij acc. to practice of the printer] Armig."
My copy doesn't qualify as a new edition or issue, just a variant state of preliminaries. But the difference in title proper transcription gives me pause.
<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Thoughts? Advice?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#0070c0"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#0070c0">Deborah J. Leslie, M.A., M.L.S. | Head of Cataloging, Folger Shakespeare Library | 201 East Capitol St., S.E. | Washington, D.C. 20003<br>
<a href="mailto:djleslie@folger.edu" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0070c0">djleslie@folger.edu</span></a></span>
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#0070c0">| <a href="tel:202.675-0369" value="+12026750369" target="_blank">202.675-0369</a> | <a href="http://www.folger.edu/" target="_blank">
<span style="color:#0070c0">http://www.folger.edu</span></a> </span> <span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#0070c0"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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