<div><font><font face="georgia,serif">AACR2 was itself incoherent. One was to give the number of pages or leaves "in accordance with the terminology suggested by the volume. That is, describe a volume with leaves printed on both sides in terms of pages; describe a volume with leaves printed on,one side only in terms of leaves ...", with no provision for foliation at all. So what <i>does</i> a foliated volume with leaves printed on both sides <i>suggest</i>? What does "suggest" mean? I guess it depends on what you mean by "mean"...</font></font></div>
<div><font><font face="georgia,serif"><br></font></font></div><div><font><font face="georgia,serif">DCRM(B) 5B1.2 is, by comparison, admirably clear as to the meaning of the terms and explicit as to their use. It is, of course, <i>most</i> unfortunate that we do not make use of the the term "folios" or some such. It only adds to confusion engendered by the unfortunate ambiguity of "leaves" as used in stating extent, an ambiguity which remains in DCRM(B), the possibility for notes outside the descriptive field notwithstanding.</font></font></div>
<div><font><font face="georgia,serif"><br></font></font></div><div><font><font face="georgia,serif">Now along comes RDA, with a draft rule that explicitly states or unadvisedly implies that "foliated" means "<i>printed</i> on one side only"--perfect nonsense. Unless they're being very imprecise, and mean "with printed numbering on one side only". And there's still no provision for simply following what the volume provides, even though that's what your told to do.</font></font></div>
<div><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:georgia,serif">The necessity for separate "rare book" rules (or simply alternate rules for adequate and coherent physical description) has never been clearer.</span></div>
<div><font><font face="georgia,serif"><br clear="all"></font></font><font face="'courier new', monospace">RICHARD NOBLE : RARE BOOKS CATALOGER : JOHN HAY LIBRARY : BROWN UNIVERSITY<br>PROVIDENCE, RI 02912 : 401-863-1187/FAX 863-3384 : <a href="mailto:RICHARD_NOBLE@BROWN.EDU" target="_blank">RICHARD_NOBLE@BROWN.EDU</a> </font><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Robert Maxwell <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:robert_maxwell@byu.edu" target="_blank">robert_maxwell@byu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">In this regard, I point out to DCRM-Lers that RDA (which defines pages in leaves in terms of numbering) changed this from AACR2 (which defines pages and leaves in terms of how the sheet is printed) to be in line
with the DCRM(B) treatment of pages and leaves; this revision proposal, unfortunately, changes it back to the AACR2 treatment. I think it’s a step backwards, naturally, since I’m sympathetic with the DCRMB treatment.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Bob<u></u><u></u></span></p><div class="im">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Robert L. Maxwell<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Special Collections and Ancient Languages Catalog Librarian<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Genre/Form Authorities Librarian<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">6728 Harold B. Lee Library<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Brigham Young University<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Provo, UT 84602<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="tel:%28801%29422-5568" value="+18014225568" target="_blank">(801)422-5568</a>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">"We should set an example for all the world, rather than confine ourselves to the course which has been heretofore pursued"--Eliza
R. Snow, 1842.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div><div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Lapka, Francis<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 17, 2012 9:05 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [DCRM-L] Clarification of leaves and pages (6JSC/LC/21 Clarification of leaves and pages<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Subscribers to this list may be interested in a proposal from the Library of Congress to “clarify” the definitions of the terms “leaves” and “pages” in RDA. The proposed revisions are as follows:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div style="border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">3.4.5.2 Single Volume With Numbered Pages, Leaves, or Columns
<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">For a resource consisting of a single volume, record the extent in terms of pages, leaves, or columns as appropriate to the presentation used in the resource,
applying the following general guidelines: <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:1.0in">
<u></u><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><span>a)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">If the volume is paginated (<s>i.e., if there are page numbers on both sides of the leaves</s>
<u>e.g., if leaves are printed on both sides</u>), record the number of pages.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:1.0in">
<u></u><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><span>b)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">If the volume is foliated (<s>i.e., if there are leaf numbers on only one side of the leaves</s>
<u>e.g., if leaves are printed on one side</u>), record the number of leaves.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">[Rest of instruction unchanged]<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Glossary
<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Leaf: A subunit of a volume; a single bound or fastened sheet of paper forms a leaf; each leaf consists of two pages, one on each side, either or both of which
may be blank.<u></u><u></u></span></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Page: A single side of a leaf<u></u><u></u></span></u></p>
<div style="border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">The full text of the LC proposal is available here:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><a href="http://www.rda-jsc.org/docs/6JSC-LC-21.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.rda-jsc.org/docs/6JSC-LC-21.pdf</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Subscribers to the PCC-list may have already read a healthy discussion on this issue at the beginning of the month. Bob Maxwell offered good arguments for why the proposed modification may be detrimental. Liz O’Keefe
noted that the proposed definition for leaf would exclude manuscripts that are neither bound nor fastened together. For those not subscribed to the PCC list, a summary of comments is available on the CC:DA wiki:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><a href="http://wikis.ala.org/ccda/index.php/6JSC/LC/21" target="_blank">http://wikis.ala.org/ccda/index.php/6JSC/LC/21</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">CC:DA will soon discuss this proposal in order to formulate an official ALA/CC:DA position ahead of the upcoming meeting of JSC. I will of course be happy to convey the thoughts of the DCRM community to CC:DA.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Francis<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">(RBMS Liaison to CC:DA)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">_________________________________<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b>Francis Lapka, Catalog Librarian<u></u><u></u></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Yale Center for British Art, Department of Rare Books and Manuscripts<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">1080 Chapel Street, PO Box 208280, New Haven, CT 06520<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><a href="tel:203.432.9672" value="+12034329672" target="_blank">203.432.9672</a> <a href="mailto:francis.lapka@yale.edu" target="_blank">
francis.lapka@yale.edu</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>