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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D">I agree with others that DCRM needs to provide a way to transcribe manufacturer-only information when it is clearly not a publisher and the publisher is unknown.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D">I have severe reservations about adding any text to the rules that make a distinction between hand-press and machine-press. We all worked very hard to avoid that
when writing DCRM(B), with Area 4 being the most crucial part of the rules in that regard.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D">According to 4B1.2.2, an example of a manufacturer only should not have “[S.l.]” in the place of publication if we know where the manufacturer is located, since
that place could be used as the basis for a conjecture. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D">I like Kate’s idea very much of adding the instruction to 4A, where such an instruction fits very nicely and leaving 4E,F,&G alone. Although Jain considered and
rejected the idea of simply removing the portion of the rule that specifies supplying a known publisher, I think it works quite well. (I’m including all of 4A.6 below for convenience’ sake), even though I’m only proposing a change to the text of 4A6.2.2. )<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">4A6.2. Statements relating to manufacture only<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="PPTOC4A6.2.1."></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
<a name="4A6PERIOD2PERIOD1"></a>4A6.2.1. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="dcrmbUNDERSCORE0606"></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt">If the publication bears only a statement relating to manufacture, or multiple such statements, generally assume the manufacturer(s) to also be functioning as publisher(s),
distributor(s), etc. Transcribe the statement(s) according to the instructions in
<a href="http://desktop.loc.gov/template.htm?view=document&doc_action=setdoc&doc_keytype=foliodestination&doc_key=dcrmb4B&hash=4B" target="rightFrame">
4B</a>, <a href="http://desktop.loc.gov/template.htm?view=document&doc_action=setdoc&doc_keytype=foliodestination&doc_key=dcrmb4C&hash=4C" target="rightFrame">
4C</a>, and <a href="http://desktop.loc.gov/template.htm?view=document&doc_action=setdoc&doc_keytype=foliodestination&doc_key=dcrmb4D&hash=4D" target="rightFrame">
4D</a>. Consider the words “place of publication” and “publisher” in those instructions to refer equally to the place of manufacture and name of manufacturer in such cases.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="dcrmbUNDERSCORE0607"></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Moguntiae : In typographeio Ioannis Albini, anno 1602<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="dcrmbUNDERSCORE0608"></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Edmonton : Jas. E. Richards, government printer, 1907<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="dcrmbUNDERSCORE0609"></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Te Philadelphia : Gedrukt bij Hendrik Miller, in de Twede Straat, MDCCLXII [1762]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="dcrmbUNDERSCORE0610"></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Albany : Printed by Websters and Skinners ; New-York : Stereotyped by G. Bruce, 1822</span><span style="font-family:"Courier New""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="PPTOC4A6.2.2."></a><br>
<a name="4A6PERIOD2PERIOD2"></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt">4A6.2.2. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="dcrmbUNDERSCORE0611"></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt">However, if the manufacturer is known not to be the publisher, distributor, etc., transcribe the manufacturer statement as such according to the instructions in
<a href="http://desktop.loc.gov/template.htm?view=document&doc_action=setdoc&doc_keytype=foliodestination&doc_key=dcrmb4E&hash=4E" target="rightFrame">
4E</a>, <a href="http://desktop.loc.gov/template.htm?view=document&doc_action=setdoc&doc_keytype=foliodestination&doc_key=dcrmb4F&hash=4F" target="rightFrame">
4F</a>, and <a href="http://desktop.loc.gov/template.htm?view=document&doc_action=setdoc&doc_keytype=foliodestination&doc_key=dcrmb4G&hash=4G" target="rightFrame">
4G</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">[Boston : New York & Erie Railroad Company, 1856] (Boston : Farwells & Forrest, steam job printers, 5 Lindall Street)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">[Akron, Ohio? : s.n., 1912?] (Akron, Ohio : Printed by Superior Printing)
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="PPTOC4A6.3._Statements_relating_both_to_"></a><a name="4A6PERIOD3"></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kate Moriarty<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 13 September, 2012 14:51<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Revision Group List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] DPC for Area 4, manufacture elements<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Jain,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for putting this together. Here are my thoughts on the two proposed changes.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Proposed Change 1:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I agree with you that it's worth retaining rule 4A.6.2.2 as is so that there are instructions on supplying publisher, etc. information when it can be determined. But I like the idea of keeping the suggested new rule with the other general
instructions in 4A. What about this: Follow rule 4A6.2.2. with a new rule, 4A6.2.3, that includes some of your wording.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">4A6.2.3. If the manufacturer is known not to be the publisher, distributor, etc., and some or all of the details about the publisher, distributor, etc. are unknown, transcribe the manufacturer statement as such according to the instructions
in 4E, 4F, and 4G.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">[S.l. : s.n., 1856] (Boston : Farwells & Forrest, steam job printers, 5 Lindall Street)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Proposed Change 2:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">One of the examples under 4A6.2.1 has a date of 1907 so it appears that this rule was not meant to be exclusively for hand-press material. Additionally, changing it would make the "However" in 4A6.2.2 ambiguous: does it refer to only hand-press
publication without publisher, distributor, etc., statements or to all material? I think it can stand as it is.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-Kate<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 3:46 PM, Erin Blake <<a href="mailto:EBlake@folger.edu" target="_blank">EBlake@folger.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Just a quick note to say I do have thoughts about this, but am up against a deadline at the moment. Will weigh in later this week.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> Erin.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Fletcher, Jain<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 07, 2012 12:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Revision Group List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [DCRM-L] DPC for Area 4, manufacture elements</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Hello, everyone,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> Attached you will find discussion of an issue that I brought up at the BSC June 22 meeting in Anaheim. As I say at the beginning of it, it has 3 parts: 1) existing or draft
rule texts to aid in discussion (these will also sometimes have yellow highlights, so you will know those are not the actual proposed texts); 2) discussion and 3) at the very end, a summary of the actual proposed texts. These last will be obvious, because
I have “simulated” a tracked-changes document by using red font for the proposed changes.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> The proposal goes so far as to suggest rule number changes at the end of Area 4 (with reasons given in the discussion portion), but I know that this is a bigger issue than most
of us would like to touch, so I am very open to suggestion of other ways to approach the rule numbering in that section, without removing the added text in that area, which I think is crucial (and hope you agree).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> I would also suggest that, despite my attempts to help the reading by including existing DCRM(B) text, people would benefit by looking at DCRM(B) and even glancing at AACR2 (when
prompted in the discussion) while reading.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> I am interested in everyone’s comments about this issue, and hope that the DCRM editors will lend their experience with these rule issues to the discussion.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> --Jain<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Californian FB";color:#403152">Jain Fletcher<br>
Principal Cataloger & Head, Cataloging Section<br>
Collection Management Division <br>
Library Special Collections<br>
Young Research Library - UCLA Box 951575<br>
Los Angeles, CA 90095-1575</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Californian FB";color:#403152">v: <a href="tel:%28310%29%20794-4096" target="_blank">
(310) 794-4096</a><br>
f: <a href="tel:%28310%29%20206-1864" target="_blank">(310) 206-1864</a><br>
e: </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Californian FB";color:#403152"><a href="mailto:jfletchr@library.ucla.edu" target="_blank" title="mailto:jfletchr@library.ucla.edu"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#403152">jfletchr@library.ucla.edu</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in;text-align:center">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:blue">..-.:~*~:._,_.:~*~:._,_.:~*~:._,_.:~*~:._,_.:~*~:._,_.:~*~:.-.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-align:center">
<b><span style="font-family:Papyrus;color:#7030A0">Pedantry and mastery are opposite attitudes toward rules.
<br>
To apply a rule to the letter, rigidly, unquestioningly, in cases where it fits and in cases where it does not fit, is pedantry...
<br>
To apply a rule with natural ease, with judgment, noticing the cases where it fits, and without ever letting the words of the rule obscure the purpose of the action or the opportunities of the situation, is mastery.
</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-align:center">
<b><span style="font-family:Papyrus;color:#7030A0">George Polya, professor of mathematics (1887-1985)</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:center">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:blue">.-~*~:._,_.:~*~:._,_.:~*~:._,_.:~*~:._,_.:~*~:._,_.:~*~:..</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
Kate S. Moriarty, MSW, MLS | Rare Book Catalog Librarian | Pius XII Memorial Library |
<br>
Saint Louis University | 3650 Lindell Blvd . | St. Louis, MO 63108 | <a href="tel:%28314%29%20977-3024" target="_blank">
(314) 977-3024</a> (tel) | <a href="tel:%28314%29%20977-3108" target="_blank">(314) 977-3108</a> (fax) |
<a href="mailto:moriarks@slu.edu" target="_blank">moriarks@slu.edu</a> | <a href="http://libraries.slu.edu/" target="_blank">
http://libraries.slu.edu/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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