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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hello, everyone,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> I am very inclined to agree (along with Kate) about Manon’s well-thought-out textual changes, as well as her considered opinion (including the helpful editorial
rationale she has given) about whether or not the “In case of doubt...” text is needed. I will be putting together the vote on the DPC according to the latest opinions about it, which also will include the new examples. I will do this later today, unless
I hear any further thoughts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> Again, I cannot thank all of you enough for the time you have taken on this
matter! --Jain<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:20.0pt;font-family:"Freestyle Script";color:#0070C0">Jain Fletcher</span><span style="font-family:"Californian FB","serif";color:#0070C0"><br>
Principal Cataloger & Head, Cataloging Section<br>
Collection Management Division <br>
Library Special Collections</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#0070C0"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Kate Moriarty [mailto:moriarks@slu.edu]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 10, 2012 7:12 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Revision Group List<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Fletcher, Jain; bsc@rbms.info<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] DPC on manufacture elements - final(?)(!) rule edits, with one example change<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I really like Manon's suggestion for 4A6.2.2. It's concise, simple, and clear to me. And, as Jain has pointed out, examples can serve as reinforcement of instructions which I believe they do in this case.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I liked the "In case of doubt" suggested rule but something was nagging at me that it felt redundant and I believe it is the "generally assume" instruction in 4A6.2.1 that Manon points out. So I don't think we need it after all.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Thanks,<br>
Kate<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Manon Theroux <<a href="mailto:manon.theroux@gmail.com" target="_blank">manon.theroux@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In Case of Doubt question: Personally, I think the "generally assume<br>
..." statement in 4A6.2.1 functions just fine as an "in case of doubt"<br>
instruction. Generally transcribe the manufacturer as a publisher,<br>
etc., unless you know (or judge) it to be functioning solely as a<br>
manufacturer.<br>
<br>
But if others think an "in case of doubt" instruction is needed, here<br>
are some things I don't like about the text that has been proposed:<br>
- "publisher" should be "publisher, distributor, etc." following DCRM style<br>
- "agency" might imply a corporate body - some manufacturers are named<br>
individuals<br>
- "whether a named agency is a publisher or a manufacturer": The<br>
choice isn't publisher vs. manufacturer. We already know we're dealing<br>
with a manufacturer. It's more whether it is a manufacturer vs. a<br>
manufacturer also functioning as a publisher, distributor, etc.<br>
<br>
Split infinitive question: I confess it never bothered me, but I'd be<br>
okay with changing "to also be functioning as" to either "also to be<br>
functioning as" or "to be functioning also as"<br>
<br>
Formatting: Thanks, Jain!<br>
<br>
P.S. A plea on behalf of those without a color printer (like me!):<br>
Please consider using underlining to indicate inserted text in Word<br>
docs rather than simply using color. That way we can print out a draft<br>
in black and white and still see the changes...<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 6:13 PM, Fletcher, Jain<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><<a href="mailto:jfletchr@library.ucla.edu">jfletchr@library.ucla.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
> Hi, While I think this change may not provide sufficient clarity on how to proceed and I worry about how it will be understood down the road, I can live with this idea and the suggested text Manon gives in 4A6.2.2. I would still like the last rule that I've
been suggesting to be included as well, so if this version is agreed to, then it would become 4A6.2.3: In case of doubt...[etc.]<br>
><br>
> BTW, is it worth mentioning that there is a split infinitive in the first sentence of 4A6.2.1 that I'd also love to see changed (to: "also to be")? I can continue to bite the bullet on that one if no one else cares...<br>
><br>
> PS: I've "formatted" the examples on this version so that it is more obvious where each start; I hope it continues to be clearer in succeeding responses, even for those who use "plain text" in their e-mail ...<br>
><br>
> Jain Fletcher<br>
> Principal Cataloger & Head, Cataloging Section<br>
> Collection Management Division<br>
> Library Special Collections<br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: Manon Theroux [mailto:<a href="mailto:manon.theroux@gmail.com">manon.theroux@gmail.com</a>]<br>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 1:35 PM<br>
> To: Fletcher, Jain; DCRM Revision Group List; <a href="mailto:bsc@rbms.info">bsc@rbms.info</a><br>
> Subject: Re: DPC on manufacture elements - final(?)(!) rule edits, with one example change<br>
><br>
> I continue to think that we should be able to resolve this in a simpler way. I'd much prefer to keep 4A6.2. as a two-part rule. That is the whole point of the "Generally ... However ..." structure.<br>
> Assuming we want to keep the examples that Jain has proposed, can we do this?: -Manon<br>
><br>
><br>
> 4A6. Elements relating to publication, distribution, etc., vs. elements relating to manufacture<br>
><br>
> Consider the wording, layout, and typography of the publication itself when determining the most appropriate place to transcribe information relating to the publication, distribution, etc., area. Keep in mind that statements relating to printing will sometimes
be more appropriately transcribed as elements of publication, distribution, etc., and sometimes as elements of manufacture. Consult the following instructions for guidance.<br>
><br>
> 4A6.1. Statements relating to publication, distribution, etc., only<br>
><br>
> If the publication bears only a statement relating to publication, distribution, etc., or multiple such statements, transcribe the<br>
> statement(s) according to the instructions in 4B, 4C, and 4D.<br>
><br>
> Geneuae : Sumptibus Petri Chouët, 1651<br>
><br>
> Viennae : Impensis Joannis Pauli Kraus, bibliopolae Viennensis, 1768<br>
><br>
> New-York : Sold by D. Felt & Co. ; Boston : Published by Cha's Ellms, agent, [1835?]<br>
><br>
> 4A6.2. Statements relating to manufacture only<br>
><br>
> 4A6.2.1. If the publication bears only a statement relating to manufacture, or multiple such statements, generally assume the<br>
> manufacturer(s) to also be functioning as publisher(s), distributor(s), etc. Transcribe the statement(s) according to the instructions in 4B, 4C, and 4D. Consider the words "place of publication" and "publisher" in those instructions to refer equally to the
place of manufacture and name of manufacturer in such cases.<br>
><br>
> Moguntiae : In typographeio Ioannis Albini, anno 1602<br>
><br>
> Te Philadelphia : Gedrukt bij Hendrik Miller, in de Twede Straat, MDCCLXII [1762]<br>
><br>
> Albany : Printed by Websters and Skinners ; New-York : Stereotyped by G. Bruce, 1822<br>
><br>
> 4A6.2.2. However, if the manufacturer is known or presumed not to be the publisher, distributor, etc., transcribe the manufacturer statement as such according to the instructions in 4E, 4F, and 4G. If any details relating to publication, distribution, etc.,
can be determined or reasonably surmised, supply them in square brackets.<br>
><br>
> [Boston : New York & Erie Railroad Company, 1856] (Boston : Farwells & Forrest, steam job printers, 5 Lindall Street)<br>
><br>
> [Ontario? : s.n., 1907] (Edmonton : Jas. E. Richards, government printer)<br>
><br>
> [S.l. : s.n., 189-?] (Milano : Stamperia Artistica)<br>
> (Comment: Informational booklet for a traveling event whose programming details indicate that the event was to take place in various European cities)<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 3:19 PM, Fletcher, Jain <<a href="mailto:jfletchr@library.ucla.edu">jfletchr@library.ucla.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
>> Hello, everyone,<br>
>><br>
>> I am attaching what I now believe to be the final version of the<br>
>> publisher/manufacturer rule changes, based on the last few suggestions<br>
>> I received. As I've said before, the reason I am sending an attachment<br>
>> is because it is the only way I can be sure that people will see the<br>
>> formatting and the red font I've used to show new/edited text. I have<br>
>> only made one example change in the rules, the reason for which I<br>
>> discuss under the last area, labeled "DISCUSSION".<br>
>><br>
>> I would like to put this out for a vote by no later than the end of<br>
>> this week (the very latest timing: Friday, 10/12), so it would be nice<br>
>> if those interested could take a look at the new example along with my<br>
>> discussion, to let me know if it needs further tweaking. (I hope<br>
>> not!) Thanks so much for your attention, Jain<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Jain Fletcher<br>
>> Principal Cataloger & Head, Cataloging Section<br>
>><br>
>> Collection Management Division<br>
>> Library Special Collections<br>
>> Young Research Library - UCLA Box 951575 Los Angeles, CA 90095-1575<br>
>><br>
>> v: <a href="tel:%28310%29%20794-4096">(310) 794-4096</a><br>
>> f: <a href="tel:%28310%29%20206-1864">(310) 206-1864</a><br>
>> e: <a href="mailto:jfletchr@library.ucla.edu">jfletchr@library.ucla.edu</a><br>
>><br>
>><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
Kate S. Moriarty, MSW, MLS | Rare Book Catalog Librarian | Pius XII Memorial Library |
<br>
Saint Louis University | 3650 Lindell Blvd . | St. Louis, MO 63108 | (314) 977-3024 (tel) | (314) 977-3108 (fax) |
<a href="mailto:moriarks@slu.edu" target="_blank">moriarks@slu.edu</a> | <a href="http://libraries.slu.edu/" target="_blank">
http://libraries.slu.edu/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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