<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">While I admit some disappointment in not having a print version of DCRM(MSS) (purely Ego) I do know it is very important to make our manual as readily available as possible. Since DCRM(MSS) is to serve as a companion standard to DACS, covering areas that DACS does not, it needs to be available to a wider and many times a different audience then some of the other modules (this is of course true of many of the modules). The hope is the module will be helpful to both Librarians who need to catalog the occasional manuscript and to Archivists who need to describe a unique item in their collections in not just a MARC universe but EAD and other metadata standards as well.<br><br>Also many archival institutions are staffed by the "lone arranger" where money is even harder to come by and may not have access to Catalogers Desktop. I also
know of one medium sized institution years ago that canceled CD when they pulled APPM before DACS was approved by the Society of American Archivists (SAA) and for all I know they have not renewed their subscription. [Sidenote: DACS, which is currently out-of-print is now available for free as a pdf; unsure if the 2013 edition will be available free as well, but since it is a publication of SAA they have more leeway.]<br><br>I along with many others put countless unpaid hours and travel expenses (some covered by employers, some not) into writing rules for the different DCRM modules and I would hate to see all that hard work be hidden away not helping as many catalogers (and archivists) do their work helping patrons find what they are looking for. Having rules makes it easier to know how to describe that item you may have never come across before, to make the work of many workers (or even the one) be more consistent.<br><br>And besides I was hoping to
pick out a color for our cover ...<br><br>Alison Bridger<br>__________________________________________<br><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
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mso-ansi-language:EN;mso-no-proof:yes" lang="EN">Alison E. Bridger</span></div>
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Archivist</span></div>
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mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN;mso-no-proof:yes" lang="EN">Library-Archives
Division</span></div>
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"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:
EN;mso-no-proof:yes" lang="EN">Wisconsin</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Gill Sans MT","sans-serif";
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mso-ansi-language:EN;mso-no-proof:yes" lang="EN"> Historical Society</span></div>
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mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN;mso-no-proof:
yes" lang="EN">816 State Street</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-no-proof:yes"><span style="mso-tab-count:1"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Gill Sans MT","sans-serif";
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mso-ansi-language:EN;mso-no-proof:yes" lang="EN">Madison</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Gill Sans MT","sans-serif";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-ansi-language:EN;mso-no-proof:yes" lang="EN">, WI 53706-1482</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Gill Sans MT","sans-serif";
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mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN;mso-no-proof:yes" lang="EN">Phone:
608-264-6453</span></div>
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<a href="mailto:alison.bridger@wisconsinhistory.org"><span style="color:blue">alison.bridger@wisconsinhistory.org</span></a></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
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mso-ansi-language:EN;mso-no-proof:yes" lang="EN"><a href="http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/"><span style="color:blue">www.wisconsinhistory.org</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Gill Sans MT","sans-serif";
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Stories Since 1846</span></i></b></div>
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<![endif]--><br><div><br><span></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Laurence S. Creider <lcreider@lib.nmsu.edu><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> DCRM Revision Group List <dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu> <br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> DCRM Revision Group List <dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu>; "'bsc@rbms.info'" <bsc@rbms.info> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:14 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight:
bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [DCRM-L] Future publication of DCRMs<br> </font> </div> <br>
Well, at least we know where LC stands. I am not nearly as concerned that<br>the DCRM manuals be available in print format as that they be available at<br>minimal or no cost. This means that the manuals must ultimately be<br>available outside of Cataloger's Desktop. I have always felt badly about<br>the fact that I could not refer catalogers directly to the DCRM manuals<br>from the Directory of Web Resources as the site does to the controlled<br>vocabularies.<br><br>It seems like LC is dissolving the publishing relationship between RBMS<br>and itself, and we should take advantage of that. Since there will be a<br>turnover of existing DCRM modules as we adapt to RDA, BSC should take<br>advantage of the opportunity and publish these materials on its own<br>imprint. As a cataloger who is still outraged by ALA's attitudes towards<br>making RDA available and forcing online access to AACR2 through the prices<br>of RDA Toolkit, I believe
that BSC should not publish through ALA or ACRL.<br> At this point, I think that we should take our own responsibility for<br>distribution through the internet of these tools that we all use and not<br>hand it off to a corporate body with less interest in making special<br>collections materials available than in covering costs or making a profit.<br><br>As a side note, I am not very impressed with Peter Seligman's argument<br>(actually Congress's) about recovering production costs. How about the<br>thousands of hours put in by members of the rare book cataloging community<br>to provide the content and much of the display for these manuals? It is<br>unlikely, but can we use this as a (moral) bargaining chip? The law may<br>be the law, but sometimes the law is also an ass.<br><br>There should be some interesting discussions at ALA.<br><br>Larry<br><br>P.S. I just saw Richard's note, which makes many good points. I would<br>prefer
doing something on the BSC level rather than the RBMS publication<br>committee because there seems to be some sort of organizational law that<br>the higher up in the structure you go, the less understanding there is of<br>what life on the ground is like. The rare materials cataloging community<br>has done a remarkably good job of keeping its focus on improving and<br>making standards public. With the constantly changing membership of the<br>section Publications Committee, we are likely to get a Pharoah who did not<br>know Joseph and end up making bricks without straw.<br><br>-- <br>Laurence S. Creider<br>Interim Head<br>Archives and Special Collections Dept.<br>University Library<br>New Mexico State University<br>Las Cruces, NM 88003<br>Work: 575-646-4756<br>Fax: 575-646-7477<br><a ymailto="mailto:lcreider@lib.nmsu.edu" href="mailto:lcreider@lib.nmsu.edu">lcreider@lib.nmsu.edu</a><br><br>On Wed, February 27, 2013 12:31 pm, Carpenter,
Jane wrote:<br>> Manon,<br>><br>> The publication issues and options regarding the DCRM manuals are<br>getting<br>> more and more complex by the minute! Peter has just informed me that<br>any<br>> of the manuals in print--Books, Serials, Graphics-- cannot be made<br>available for free on the RBMS website.<br>><br>> "CDS made an investment in printing the Books and Serials<br>publications;<br>> and the same will hold true for Graphics. Because the two earlier ones<br>are still active products, for sale, and the Graphics publication will<br>also be for sale, we cannot, at this time, agree to have the RBMS web<br>site post those three manuals online.<br>> Congressional legislation mandates that we return the cost of<br>production<br>>
plus an additional percentage back to the U.S. Treasury. So, we don't<br>have really any leeway here."<br>><br>> Unfortunately, I do understand that LC would be reluctant/unable to<br>provide free access through the RBMS website to publications that it is<br>marketing for sale as print publications and for paid accessibility<br>through Catalogers Desktop.<br>><br>> I asked him how LC would feel about allowing free access through the<br>RBMS<br>> website to DCRM manuals that AREN'T available in print. If<br>Cartographics,<br>> Music, and Manuscripts will be appearing only on CatDesk, would LC allow<br>RBMS to make those files available on its site? He responded that<br>because<br>> CDS will not be publishing in print any DCRM publication after Graphics,<br>LC would have absolutely no say on whatever arrangements RBMS/BSC would<br>wish to make. Ironically, it seems that those manuals
without a print<br>version could be made more widely available--through the RBMS<br>> website--than the ones with a print version.<br>><br>> Another possible option to consider might be the current model of the<br>RBMS<br>> Controlled Vocabularies, which is hosted on the RBMS site, but<br>"available"<br>> through a seamless link on CatDesk. This is the what the Standard<br>Citations Forms Revision Group is hoping to do with its new completely<br>revised and expanded edition which is nearing completion, and is slated<br>for publication sometime before year's end.<br>> I'm not sure putting all the manuals, Examples, and SCF on the RBMS site<br>is feasible for the Web Team as it stands now. It would certainly be a<br>lot more work for them.<br>><br>> Annie's suggestion to explore the possibility of securing another/other<br>publisher(s) for the remaining DCRM manuals is worth considering. But<br>again, if a publisher
were selling the DCRM manuals, would they agree to<br>have RBMS post it for free online? I'd also like to know if LC would post<br>> the manuals on CatDesktop if someone else were publishing them. I'll<br>wait<br>> to hear from Bruce Johnson on the CatDesk issues.<br>><br>> I'm becoming quite concerned about keeping multiple RBMS/BSC<br>publications<br>> uniformly accessible in this changing publication landscape, with some<br>available in print, some print and online, some online only, some<br>through<br>> LC on CatDesk, some through RBMS but linked to Cat Desk.. This is<br>clearly<br>> a discussion topic for the BSC agenda at Annual. Perhaps BSC should set<br>up a Publications committee to ensure that BSC has a consistent and<br>sustainable plan for making its manuals and other cataloging tools as<br>widely and easily available as possible. Would this be something for the<br>> DCRM Steering Group to
consider, if their charge were expanded? That<br>might be another option.<br>><br>> Jane C.<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>> -----Original Message-----<br>> From: <a ymailto="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a> [mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>] On<br>Behalf Of Manon Theroux<br>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 10:31 AM<br>> To: DCRM Revision Group List<br>> Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] Future publication of DCRMs<br>><br>> Jane,<br>><br>> I like the idea of having them freely available on the RBMS website for<br>people to download (and print, if they want a print version). Is there<br>some doubt that this can be done? (I notice the words "we hope"<br>> ...).<br>><br>> I would not want them to *only* be available
through Cataloger's<br>Desktop.<br>> That would price out a lot of people/institutions. And there are times<br>when a print version is highly desirable.<br>><br>> If LC will remain the publisher, it would be good to confirm with them<br>whether they will still be responsible for contracting out the indexing.<br>And whether they can still do the graphical work to produce the covers<br>(basing them on the existing DCRM covers). Although the covers wouldn't<br>display in Cataloger's Desktop, it would be nice to be able to<br>incorporate<br>> them into the versions of the DCRM documents posted on rbms.info (and I<br>should think it shouldn't be hard to create these cover images).<br>><br>> -Manon<br>><br>> --<br>> Manon Théroux<br>> Head of Technical Services<br>> U.S. Senate Library<br>><br>><br>> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 12:33 PM, ANN W. COPELAND <<a ymailto="mailto:auc1@psu.edu"
href="mailto:auc1@psu.edu">auc1@psu.edu</a>> wrote:<br>>> Jane,<br>>> Thank you for sharing this news. I wonder if we would seek another<br>publisher for the remaining 3 manuals when they are ready, or do they have<br>to be LC to be including in Catalogers' Desktop? For instance, the Music<br>Library Association does some publishing I believe.<br>>> Thanks, Annie<br>>> ________________________________<br>>> From: "Jane Carpenter" <<a ymailto="mailto:jfcarpenter@library.ucla.edu" href="mailto:jfcarpenter@library.ucla.edu">jfcarpenter@library.ucla.edu</a>><br>>> To: "<a ymailto="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>" <<a ymailto="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>>> Cc: "Jose Fernando Pena" <<a ymailto="mailto:Jose.Pena@liu.edu" href="mailto:Jose.Pena@liu.edu">Jose.Pena@liu.edu</a>>, "<a
ymailto="mailto:bsc@rbms.info" href="mailto:bsc@rbms.info">bsc@rbms.info</a>"<br>>> <<a ymailto="mailto:bsc@rbms.info" href="mailto:bsc@rbms.info">bsc@rbms.info</a>><br>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 12:24:09 PM<br>>> Subject: [DCRM-L] Future publication of DCRMs<br>>> Dear Colleagues,<br>>> As most of you already know, LC informed BSC this week that with the<br>exception of DCRM Graphics, all future DCRM publications will be online<br>only. I'm passing on some additional information received today from<br>Peter Seligman of LC's Consumer Products and Services Section of the<br>Office of Business Enterprises, which now oversees print publications:<br>>> "Given the projected manuscript production and<br>>> delivery schedule, we felt that the Graphics publication was too far<br>along for us to suddenly inform everyone that we could no longer
do it in<br>print. Music and Cartographics were not quite so imminent. We're truly<br>sorry to deliver this unexpected news but these are business decisions we<br>must make. Yes--Bruce [Johnson] will be handling the three manuals<br>inclusion in Cataloger's Desktop. As for the<br>>> sequester--who knows what effects it will have on everyone? The Library<br>of Congress is planning for almost a week of unpaid staff furloughs, but<br>nothing is written in stone."<br>>> So DCRM Graphics, currently undergoing close reading by BSC members and<br>other BSC colleagues, will join the DCRM Books and Serials manuals already<br>in print. However, all future DCRMs--Cartographics, Music, and<br>>> Manuscripts-- will be available only online through Catalogers<br>>> Desktop, and, we hope, through the RBMS website as well.<br>>> LC has always been an excellent partner with RBMS/BSC in publishing<br>these important
cataloging tools, and I don't see that changing in the<br>future.<br>>> As always, comments and discussion are welcome,<br>>> Thanks,<br>>> Jane<br>>> Jane Carpenter, Ph.D., M.L.I.S.<br>>> Chair, Bibliographic Standards Committee<br>>> UCLA Library Special Collections<br>>> <a ymailto="mailto:jfcarpenter@library.ucla.edu" href="mailto:jfcarpenter@library.ucla.edu">jfcarpenter@library.ucla.edu</a><br>><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br> </div> </div> </div></body></html>