<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">Hmm... But the "marcrelator" term designates an entity to entity relationship, in the structure of an access point. Isn't the underlying idea of using lcsh for 374 to provide topical access to entities as such? Lcsh can just as well provide index terms for persons, in the authority file, as it does for resources in the bibliographic file--which would favor the use of a consistent controlled vocabulary for both, in the hopes that the authority file might one day be of use beyond the cataloging office.</div>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><font face="'courier new', monospace">RICHARD NOBLE :: RARE MATERIALS CATALOGUER :: JOHN HAY LIBRARY</font><div><font face="'courier new', monospace">BROWN UNIVERSITY :: PROVIDENCE, R.I. 02912 :: 401-863-1187</font></div>
<div><span style="font-family:'courier new',monospace"><</span><a href="mailto:RICHARD_NOBLE@BROWN.EDU" style="font-family:'courier new',monospace" target="_blank">Richard_Noble@Br</a><span style="font-family:'courier new',monospace"><a href="http://own.edu" target="_blank">own.edu</a></span><span style="font-family:'courier new',monospace">></span></div>
</div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Erin Blake <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:EBlake@folger.edu" target="_blank">EBlake@folger.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">FYI, this seems worth sharing with the larger group, in case others were as slow to put it together as I was. Instead of "Booksellers and bookselling $2 lcsh" for Occupation in an authority record, we can use</span><span style="color:#1f497d">
"Bookseller $2 marcrelator"<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Long story short, for anyone who reads the whole thread, I'm
<i>not</i> going to propose a code for RBMS relationship designators. It might be nice to have in theory, but I'm moving on to other things now.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Erin.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d">--------------------------------------------------<br>
Erin C. Blake, Ph.D. | Interim Head of Collection Information Services and Cataloging; Curator of Art & Special Collections | Folger Shakespeare Library | 201 E. Capitol St. SE | Washington, DC 20003-1004 | office tel. <a href="tel:%2B1%20%28202%29%20675-0323" value="+12026750323" target="_blank">+1 (202) 675-0323</a> | fax:
<a href="tel:%2B1%20%28202%29%20675-0328" value="+12026750328" target="_blank">+1 (202) 675-0328</a> | <a href="mailto:eblake@folger.edu" target="_blank">eblake@folger.edu</a> | <a href="http://www.folger.edu" target="_blank">www.folger.edu</a> | <a href="http://collation.folger.edu" target="_blank">collation.folger.edu</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Robert Maxwell [mailto:<a href="mailto:robert_maxwell@byu.edu" target="_blank">robert_maxwell@byu.edu</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 20, 2013 1:21 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Erin Blake<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Bib Standards Committee (<a href="mailto:bsc@rbms.info" target="_blank">bsc@rbms.info</a>)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Need a source code for RBMS relationship designators?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">I’m not arguing that you shouldn’t apply for a code, but given that you’ve discovered a code for the MARC list, and given that all the RBMS relationship designators are in the MARC list, you could do this:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">374 Bookseller $2 marcrelator<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">I’m going to start doing this myself—I hadn’t thought of looking in the MARC relator list for occupation terms, but obviously it’s full of them—in fact almost all the terms would be appropriate. And they’re singular.
You’re brilliant </span><span style="font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d">J</span><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Bob<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d">Robert L. Maxwell<br>
Ancient Languages and Special Collections Cataloger<br>
6728 Harold B. Lee Library<br>
Brigham Young University<br>
Provo, UT 84602<br>
<a href="tel:%28801%29422-5568" value="+18014225568" target="_blank">(801)422-5568</a> <br>
<br>
"We should set an example for all the world, rather than confine ourselves to the course which has been heretofore pursued"--Eliza R. Snow, 1842.</span><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Erin Blake [<a href="mailto:EBlake@folger.edu" target="_blank">mailto:EBlake@folger.edu</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 20, 2013 10:57 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Robert Maxwell; 'JOHN C ATTIG'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Bib Standards Committee (<a href="mailto:bsc@rbms.info" target="_blank">bsc@rbms.info</a>)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Need a source code for RBMS relationship designators?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">The RBMS relationship designators code wouldn't belong there, though. What I'm really looking for is a work-around to the fact that neither "archives and manuscripts" list of occupations seems to be shared outside
their respective organizations.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Erin. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Robert Maxwell [<a href="mailto:robert_maxwell@byu.edu" target="_blank">mailto:robert_maxwell@byu.edu</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 20, 2013 12:54 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Erin Blake; 'JOHN C ATTIG'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Bib Standards Committee (<a href="mailto:bsc@rbms.info" target="_blank">bsc@rbms.info</a>)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Need a source code for RBMS relationship designators?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Oh, I thought you were wanting to use the code with a 5XX that includes a relationship designator. If you’re not thinking of identifying the term when it’s being used as a relationship designator (which your
proposed use doesn’t), then won’t putting the proposed code in <a href="http://www.loc.gov/standards/sourcelist/relator-role.html" target="_blank">
http://www.loc.gov/standards/sourcelist/relator-role.html</a> hide it? If the proposed use is to use the term as an occupation term wouldn’t it be better to have the code in
<a href="http://www.loc.gov/standards/sourcelist/occupation.html" target="_blank">http://www.loc.gov/standards/sourcelist/occupation.html</a>?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Bob<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d">Robert L. Maxwell<br>
Ancient Languages and Special Collections Cataloger<br>
6728 Harold B. Lee Library<br>
Brigham Young University<br>
Provo, UT 84602<br>
<a href="tel:%28801%29422-5568" value="+18014225568" target="_blank">(801)422-5568</a> <br>
<br>
"We should set an example for all the world, rather than confine ourselves to the course which has been heretofore pursued"--Eliza R. Snow, 1842.</span><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Erin Blake [<a href="mailto:EBlake@folger.edu" target="_blank">mailto:EBlake@folger.edu</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 20, 2013 10:48 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'JOHN C ATTIG'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Bib Standards Committee (<a href="mailto:bsc@rbms.info" target="_blank">bsc@rbms.info</a>)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Need a source code for RBMS relationship designators?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">It would go in the "Occupation" field of an RDA Authority record.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">We want to use "bookseller" instead of the LCSH term "booksellers and bookselling" (which mixes Occupation and Field of Activity, an RDA no-no)
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">For "field of activity" we can use "bookselling" (from the Thesaurus for Graphic materials) but there's no matching "occupation" term.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Erin.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">--------------------------------------------------<br>
Erin C. Blake, Ph.D. | Interim Head of Collection Information Services and Cataloging | Folger Shakespeare Library | 201 E. Capitol St. SE | Washington, DC 20003-1004 | office tel. <a href="tel:%2B1%20%28202%29%20675-0323" value="+12026750323" target="_blank">+1 (202) 675-0323</a> | fax: <a href="tel:%2B1%20%28202%29%20675-0328" value="+12026750328" target="_blank">+1 (202) 675-0328</a> |
<a href="mailto:eblake@folger.edu" target="_blank">eblake@folger.edu</a> | <a href="http://www.folger.edu" target="_blank">
www.folger.edu</a> | <a href="http://collation.folger.edu" target="_blank">collation.folger.edu</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> JOHN C ATTIG [<a href="mailto:jxa16@psu.edu" target="_blank">mailto:jxa16@psu.edu</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 20, 2013 12:43 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Erin Blake<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Bib Standards Committee (<a href="mailto:bsc@rbms.info" target="_blank">bsc@rbms.info</a>)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Need a source code for RBMS relationship designators?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I'm puzzled by the presence of a code list for sources of relators and roles.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">There is no $2 in which to record such a code in 1XX, 7XX or 8XX fields; there is a $2 in 6XX fields, but it identifies the source of the heading or term, not the source of any
relators.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">So where would one record "marcrelator" -- or new codes for "rbmsrelator" . . . or "rdarelator" for that matter?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> John Attig<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> Authority Control Librarian<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> Penn State University<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:jxa16@psu.edu" target="_blank">jxa16@psu.edu</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010ff 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">From:
</span></b><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">"Erin Blake" <<a href="mailto:EBlake@folger.edu" target="_blank">EBlake@folger.edu</a>><br>
<b>To: </b>"Bib Standards Committee (<a href="mailto:bsc@rbms.info" target="_blank">bsc@rbms.info</a>)" <<a href="mailto:bsc@rbms.info" target="_blank">bsc@rbms.info</a>><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, November 20, 2013 11:42:07 AM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Need a source code for RBMS relationship designators?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style>We're looking for a MARC code we can use in RDA authority records to indicate RBMS relationship designators as the source, and can't find one.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style>It looks like it belongs on this list:
<a href="http://www.loc.gov/standards/sourcelist/relator-role.html" target="_blank">
http://www.loc.gov/standards/sourcelist/relator-role.html</a> (which currently only has one source code: marcrelator)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style>Following that model, rbmsrelator would make sense.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style>Any objection if we propose that to the
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Network Development and MARC Standards Office (on behalf of BSC)?</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Going once.... going twice.....</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Thanks,</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Erin.</span><span style><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style>--------------------------------------------------<br>
Erin C. Blake, Ph.D. | Interim Head of Collection Information Services and Cataloging | Folger Shakespeare Library | 201 E. Capitol St. SE | Washington, DC 20003-1004 | office tel. <a href="tel:%2B1%20%28202%29%20675-0323" value="+12026750323" target="_blank">+1 (202) 675-0323</a> | fax: <a href="tel:%2B1%20%28202%29%20675-0328" value="+12026750328" target="_blank">+1 (202) 675-0328</a> |
<a href="mailto:eblake@folger.edu" target="_blank">eblake@folger.edu</a> | <a href="http://www.folger.edu" target="_blank">
www.folger.edu</a> | <a href="http://collation.folger.edu" target="_blank">collation.folger.edu</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>