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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:#1F497D">Richard and Mike,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks for the input on that. So is the term “Laid papers” only applicable to hand made? I notice the Paper thesaurus has a narrower term “Modern laid papers.” How is that different
from “Antique laid papers”? When is the time break between antique and modern? It would be nice to have scope notes on these terms.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:#1F497D">I notice Terry Belanger’s piece talks about “</span><tt><span style="font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:#1F497D">moldmade paper.” It’s a rather confusing thing to me because he
says they’re made on “a mesh drum divided into compartments functioning like deckles.” Maybe this shows a lack of imagination on my part, but that doesn’t fit my mental image of “moldmade.” Moldmade sounds more like hand-made laid paper. I suppose I just haven’t
seen a mold that includes a “mesh drum”!<o:p></o:p></span></tt></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><tt><span style="font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><tt><span style="font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks, Ted </span></tt><span style="font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mike Garabedian<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 13, 2013 4:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] Deckled edges vs. Untrimmed edges<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">But wait, there's more: For members interested in artificially deckling the already-trimmed edges in their collections, I give you the Dual Edge Ripper: <a href="http://www.dualedgeripper.com/">http://www.dualedgeripper.com/</a><br>
<br>
Merry Christmas!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">--</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Mike Garabedian</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Collections Management Librarian</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Wardman Library, Whittier College</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">562.907.4859</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="mailto:mgarabedian@whittier.edu"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">mgarabedian@whittier.edu</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Noble, Richard <<a href="mailto:richard_noble@brown.edu" target="_blank">richard_noble@brown.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Chainlines and wirelines can be added to machine-made paper with a dandy roll. By themselves they are no indication of hand-making, though those made with a dandy roll have a characteristic look.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">A posting to Book_Arts-L from one T. Belanger:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif""><a href="http://www.cool.conservation-us.org/byform/mailing-lists/bookarts/2009/02/msg00343.html" target="_blank">http://www.cool.conservation-us.org/byform/mailing-lists/bookarts/2009/02/msg00343.html</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">There's more to be found by Google-searching "artificial deckle edges" (use the quotes), the phrase that Dard Hunter used, and probably more via "artificial deckled edges".</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">RICHARD NOBLE :: RARE MATERIALS CATALOGUER :: JOHN HAY LIBRARY</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">BROWN UNIVERSITY :: PROVIDENCE, R.I. 02912 :: <a href="tel:401-863-1187" target="_blank">401-863-1187</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New""><</span><a href="mailto:RICHARD_NOBLE@BROWN.EDU" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">Richard_Noble@Br</span></a><span style="font-family:"Courier New""><a href="http://own.edu" target="_blank">own.edu</a>></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Ted P Gemberling <<a href="mailto:tgemberl@uab.edu" target="_blank">tgemberl@uab.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Erin,
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">That’s interesting. Do you have any idea how one would artificially “deckle” paper?
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I just checked a couple of those 1893-94 books which have “Deckled edges (Paper)” as genre terms
and found they were printed on laid paper with vertical chain lines. So I imagine that to get the deckles they just left them untrimmed. The ABC for Book Collectors (2006 Reprint), p. 221, says that according to some authorities, cut means that the edges of
a book’s leaves have been cut smooth; trimmed that they have been more roughly levelled. But the writer says that distinction isn’t observed by most people: catalogers treat the terms as synonymous.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I suppose following that distinction, you could say the two books I examined are trimmed but not
cut. Trimmed so the deckles are still present to some extent, so the distinction between “untrimmed” and “deckled” might be meaningful. “Deckled” then means “uncut.” But since the distinction isn’t ordinarily observed between cut and trimmed, maybe there shouldn’t
be both terms in the thesaurus. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ted
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Erin Blake<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 12, 2013 5:26 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] Deckled edges vs. Untrimmed edges<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I think the noun/verb issue Richard mentioned is the key: these aren’t deckle edges (which are naturally-occurring
on untrimmed handmade sheets). They’ve been “deckled” (by a deckler?).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">So, “deckled edges” or “artificial deckle edges” but not “artificial deckled edges.”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Erin.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">----------------<br>
Erin C. Blake, Ph.D. | Interim Head of Collection Information Services and Cataloging; Curator of Art & Special Collections | Folger Shakespeare Library | 201 E. Capitol St. SE, Washington, DC, 20009 | <a href="mailto:eblake@folger.edu" target="_blank">eblake@folger.edu</a>
| office tel. <a href="tel:%2B1%20202-675-0323" target="_blank">+1 202-675-0323</a> | fax
<a href="tel:%2B1%20202-675-0328" target="_blank">+1 202-675-0328</a> | <a href="http://www.folger.edu" target="_blank">www.folger.edu</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a> [<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ted P Gemberling<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 12, 2013 5:45 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] Deckled edges vs. Untrimmed edges</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Richard,
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I just saw one thing that bears out your interpretation. The books with “Deckled edges” are all published
in 1893 or 1894. They appear to be histories of printing. One is The binding of books by Herbert P. Horne, and another, Early printed books by E. Gordon Duff. Were those known to be printed in an intentionally “old-fashioned” style?
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Our books with “Untrimmed edges” are all much earlier, but maybe that’s mainly because we don’t ordinarily
put physical description 655’s on books later than about the early 19<sup>th</sup> century.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ted </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a> [<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Noble, Richard<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 12, 2013 4:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] Deckled edges vs. Untrimmed edges</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">I assume--though without support from a scope note--the "deckled edges" are edges treated so as to resemble those of untrimmed handmade
paper, a bit of late C19+ pseudo-poshery. Untrimmed edges are just untrimmed, whatever sort of edges they may have, for which I wouldn't use the term "Deckled edges" myself, though I might cite natural deckle edges in a note as evidence that the paper in question
is handmade.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">I expect disagreement, for which there is certainly sufficient reason. Perhaps the addition of a term "Artificial deckled edges" would
clarify usage. ("Deckle edges" would be the better usage, since deckle is a noun, not a verb: a deckle leaves deckle edges in the sheet. "Deckle" as a verb might mean ... to knock someone to the floor repeatedly?)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">This interpretation
<i>is</i> supported by the UF "Feathered edges" for "Deckled edges", which could only be an artificial feature, if the phrase is even standard usage in some context (I don't recall seeing it in a bibliographical writing).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">RICHARD NOBLE :: RARE MATERIALS CATALOGUER :: JOHN HAY LIBRARY</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">BROWN UNIVERSITY :: PROVIDENCE, R.I. 02912 :: <a href="tel:401-863-1187" target="_blank">401-863-1187</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Courier New""><</span><a href="mailto:RICHARD_NOBLE@BROWN.EDU" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">Richard_Noble@Br</span></a><span style="font-family:"Courier New""><a href="http://own.edu" target="_blank">own.edu</a>></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 4:18 PM, Ted P Gemberling <<a href="mailto:tgemberl@uab.edu" target="_blank">tgemberl@uab.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I’ve noticed recently that our library has used both ACRL Paper terms “Deckled edges” and “Untrimmed edges.” I notice that both the Paper Terms and Binding Terms thesauri have “Untrimmed
edges”; “Deckled” is only in Paper Terms. What is the difference? I looked up the terms in ABC for Book Collectors and couldn’t figure out what the difference was.
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks,
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Ted P. Gemberling<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Historical Collections Cataloger<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">UAB Lister Hill Library, rm. 234B<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">1720 Second Ave. South<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Birmingham, Ala. 35294-0013<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Phone:
<a href="tel:%28205%29934-2461" target="_blank">(205)934-2461</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Fax:
<a href="tel:%28205%29934-3545" target="_blank">(205)934-3545</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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