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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Francis—<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>A few thoughts for you to consider:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=LTR></span><span style='color:#1F497D'>All the sub-elements of publication statement are core. However, for production statement, only one sub-element, date of production, is core. Perhaps that is why there is a difference in sources of information for date of production vs. place of production and producer’s name? Also, the specific instruction at 2.7.6.7 about indicating a source outside the resource itself overrides the general idea that if it’s “from any source” you don’t need to indicate where it’s from. See point 2) below.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.25in'><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=LTR></span><span style='color:#1F497D'>Manuscript catalogers should pay close attention to 2.7.6.7 (Archival Resources and Collections). The instructions here are different than those in 2.7.6.3 (Recording Date of Production). 2.7.6.7 applies to both collections and a single archival resource, which could be a manuscript cataloged individually. My guess is that 2.7.6.3 is aimed very generally at resources like paintings and miscellaneous resources, and 2.7.6.7 is meant for unpublished resources which may be expected to contain a date. For example, letters and wills are typical types of manuscript resources that often contain dates. Other types of manuscript resources like a shopping list would not be expected to contain a date, and then 2.7.6.3 with the exception at 2.2.4 kicks in.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span dir=LTR></span><span style='color:#1F497D'>The labelling of 2.7.6.7 and 2.7.6.3 is confusing, and perhaps RBMS can provide some help with that. I used to work in a special collections library that had everything from 20<sup>th</sup> century publications to stuffed birds (taxidermy, not toys). When we accepted an archival collection from a donor, that collection often contained many manuscript materials as well as realia. The collection was cataloged with one bibliographic record linked to the finding aid, which had the real details about all the unusual stuff. I’m sure many archives and special collections regularly encounter similar situations. It may also be misleading to label 2.7.6.7 in such a way that it makes it seem like the holding institution determines how the date of production is recorded. There are many libraries that collect manuscripts and they don’t have the label “archive” anywhere in their organizational structure.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Please note these are all my personal thoughts as a former manuscripts cataloger and rare book cataloger. They do not reflect any positions of the Policy and Standards Division at LC, and I have not asked anyone else in PSD for their opinions on this issue. I don’t get to talk manuscript cataloging with people much anymore so I kind of jump at the chance.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Kate James<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Policy and Standards Division<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Library of Congress<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Lapka, Francis<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 30, 2013 11:50 AM<br><b>To:</b> dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu<br><b>Subject:</b> [DCRM-L] Date of Production and Date of Manufacture elements – should a priority order be provided to prefer data in the resource itself first?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>Attention manuscript catalogers<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>Here is a second issue submitted by Kathy Glennan for CC:DA discussion at Midwinter:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><a href="http://alcts.ala.org/ccdablog/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/JSCrepGlennan201305.pdf">http://alcts.ala.org/ccdablog/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/JSCrepGlennan201305.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>The summary is sufficiently short to copy here:</span><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>Background: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>Deborah Fritz has identified a problem with identifying the source of information for Date of Production (RDA 2.7.6.2). As currently phrased, the date of production can come from any source, with no priority being given to a source in the resource. When the source of information is “any source,” catalogers do not need to indicate in any way that the data is supplied. However, RDA provides conflicting information about this recording this element. In relation to supplied dates, RDA 1.9.2 states in part: “Indicate that the date was taken from a source outside the resource itself (see 2.2.4).” Indeed, Date of Production appears on the list of transcribed elements in RDA 2.2.4 which require identification when the element is supplied from outside the resource. Deborah has also noted that subsequent instructions in RDA 2.7 also reference 2.2.4. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>In addition, the other elements associated with the Production Statement do provide a priority order. The same situation occurs with Date of Manufacture (RDA 2.10.6.2). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Current text: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>2.7.6 Date of Production <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>2.7.6.2 Sources of Information <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'>Take dates of production from any source. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>2.8.6 Date of Publication <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>2.8.6.2 Sources of Information <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'>Take dates of publication from the following sources (in order of preference): <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.5in'>a) the same source as the title proper (see 2.3.2.2) <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.5in'>b) another source within the resource itself (see 2.2.2) <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.5in'>c) one of the other sources of information specified at 2.2.4. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'>For multipart monographs and serials, take the beginning and/or ending date of publication from the first and/or last released issue or part, or from another source. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>For integrating resources, take the beginning and/or ending date of publication from the first and/or last iteration, or from another source. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>Questions for discussion: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>1. Should CC:DA develop a change proposal to address this situation? If so: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>2. Should the proposal suggest changes for both Date of Production and Date of Manufacture? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>3. Should the new language follow that for Date of Publication (RDA 2.8.6.2), or should it be simplified to just offer: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>a. a source within the resource itself <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>b. any source <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>4. If based on Date of Publication, should any of the final paragraphs be omitted? Does that decision apply to both Date of Production and Date of Manufacture?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>For Date of Manufacture, the current RDA guidelines (take “from any source”) are indeed problematic. I think it would be logical to revise the guidelines to follow those for Date of Publication. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>For Date of Production, however, the RDA guidelines are in harmony with the current draft of DCRM(Mss), which also instructs to take the information “from any source.” In light of the principles of manuscript cataloging, are RDA’s guidelines for Place of Production and Producer’s name more problematic? For these, the preferred sources of information echo those of published (i.e. self-describing) resources. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>The concluding <i>exception</i> at RDA 2.2.4 is important: <b><i>“</i></b>Do not indicate that the information was taken from a source outside the resource itself if the resource is of a type that does not normally carry identifying information (e.g., a photograph, a naturally occurring object, a collection).” Even though elements of the production statement are named as transcribed elements (in 2.2.4), most resources for which we’d record production information are also those that do not normally carry identifying information.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>Your thoughts wanted (especially the Mss group).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>Francis<b><i><o:p></o:p></i></b></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>(RBMS Liaison to CC:DA)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>_________________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b>Francis Lapka, Catalog Librarian<o:p></o:p></b></p><p class=MsoNormal>Yale Center for British Art, Department of Rare Books and Manuscripts<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>1080 Chapel Street, PO Box 208280, New Haven, CT 06520<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>203.432.9672 <a href="mailto:francis.lapka@yale.edu">francis.lapka@yale.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Please note: The Study Room is closed due to the Center’s refurbishment project, and access to the collections is limited and by appointment only. Requests for materials from Prints and Drawings and Rare Books and Manuscripts should be made at least two weeks in advance by e-mailing </span><a href="mailto:ycba.prints@yale.edu"><span style='font-size:8.0pt;color:#1F497D'>ycba.prints@yale.edu</span></a><span style='font-size:8.0pt;color:#1F497D'>. It is expected that normal services in the Study Room will resume in early January 2014.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>