<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Hi Deborah,<div><br></div><div>That's correct. For this proposal, I've already provided a response based on the comments posted to DCRM-L prior to the CC:DA's discussion and vote. There is a log of DCRM/BSC comments/responses and current status on the DCRM-RDA wiki: </div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://dcrmrda.pbworks.com/w/page/82990804/CCDA%20and%20JSC%3A%20selected%20working%20docs">http://dcrmrda.pbworks.com/w/page/82990804/CCDA%20and%20JSC%3A%20selected%20working%20docs</a></div><div><br></div><div>Over the past few weeks, CC:DA has been finalizing their discussion and voting to to authorize the ALA Representative to the JSC to provide ALA responses based on the discussion on CC:DA's website. A few proposals remain to be finalized and voted on in the next two weeks. </div><div><br></div><div>Perhaps most importantly for DCRM, the Proposal to revise RDA 2.7-2.10 (Production, Publication, Distribution, and Manufacture Statements) remains to be voted on. Comments are still welcome on our draft response here (deadline extended until Monday, Sept. 8):</div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bnIvjpPKtvXvpEEErjCZp1f85T1flROZqcidzm3Amq0/edit">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bnIvjpPKtvXvpEEErjCZp1f85T1flROZqcidzm3Amq0/edit</a></div><div><br></div><div>As a liaison, I don't get to vote, but I'm encouraged to review and comment on any of the proposals, not just those with rare materials implications. I'm not documenting that activity in the DCRM wiki, but anyone is welcome to send comments to me on those proposals as well. The CC:DA website and comments can be viewed by anyone. <a href="http://alcts.ala.org/ccdablog/?cat=33">http://alcts.ala.org/ccdablog/?cat=33</a></div><div><br></div><div>I'm still getting the hang of this position, so I also welcome feedback about this approach to proposal review.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div><br></div><div>Matthew</div><div><br><div><div>On Sep 5, 2014, at 6:14 PM, Deborah J. Leslie <<a href="mailto:DJLeslie@folger.edu">DJLeslie@folger.edu</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Georgia, serif; color: rgb(153, 51, 102);">Colleagues,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Georgia, serif; color: rgb(153, 51, 102);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Georgia, serif; color: rgb(153, 51, 102);">Am finally catching up with discussions that have been occurring. I, too, agree with Francis and Richard. What is the outcome—does Matthew take this back to CC:DA to incorporate this community's opinions in ALA's response?<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Georgia, serif; color: rgb(153, 51, 102);"> </span></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(49, 132, 155);">Deborah J. Leslie | Folger Shakespeare Library |<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:djleslie@folger.edu" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">djleslie@folger.edu</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| 202.675-0369 | 201 East Capitol St., SE, Washington, DC 20003 | www.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://folger.edu/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">folger.edu</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Georgia, serif; color: rgb(153, 51, 102);"> </span></div><div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Lapka, Francis<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, 13 August 2014 14:48<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>DCRM Users' Group<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [DCRM-L] Revision to RDA 2.4.1.8 (Noun Phrase Occurring with a Statement of Responsibility)<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I agree with Richard. The current RDA guideline needs a revision, but this proposal places too much emphasis on sequence, layout, and typography. The character of the noun phrase<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i>has</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>to be the primary (and sometimes only) indication of where it belongs.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The proposal is less coherent than its parallels in AACR2 and DCRM(B). The proposed wording of the if-and statement also implies that the noun phrase must always be recorded with Other Title Information if the sequence, layout, and typography suggest no preference—no matter how strong the indication of character in the noun phrase. I doubt this is the outcome the authors intend.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Francis<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Noble, Richard<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, August 13, 2014 9:29 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>DCRM Revision Group List<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[DCRM-L] Revision to RDA 2.4.1.8 (Noun Phrase Occurring with a Statement of Responsibility)<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;">I don't see any improvement in the proposed revision, as well as further drawbacks, and find the AACR instructions generally more coherent. The question isn't a matter of typography, but has to do with whether the information is useful in a display which includes both the title proper and other title information, but not the statement of responsibility.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;">If the noun phrase characterizes the work or expression as a whole, then it ought to be associated with the title proper as, well,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i>other</i> title information. If the noun phrase has to do with the nature of the responsibility of the person or persons named, then it's part of the statement of responsibility. There will<i>always</i> be grey areas, but with such guidelines in mind there will be a tendency to coherent if not always invariable results in the work of cataloguers.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;">The revision to regard typographical layout--which may have much more to do with visual design than with intellectual content--<i>does</i> result in intellectual incoherence. If the same words are differently disposed in another manifestation, then the 245s won't match.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: 'Courier New';">RICHARD NOBLE :: RARE MATERIALS CATALOGUER :: JOHN HAY LIBRARY</span><o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: 'Courier New';">BROWN UNIVERSITY :: PROVIDENCE, R.I. 02912 :: 401-863-1187</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: 'Courier New';"><</span><a href="mailto:RICHARD_NOBLE@BROWN.EDU" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-family: 'Courier New';">Richard_Noble@Br</span></a><span style="font-family: 'Courier New';"><a href="http://own.edu/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">own.edu</a>></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>