<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">This complaint from a German-speaking librarian may be of interest to those who can read it.<div><br></div><div>The translation of the German imprint phrases he is complaining about: Place of publication not identifiable : Publisher not identifiable.</div><div><br></div><div>A little different from "... not identified".</div><div><br></div><div>John Lancaster</div><div><br><div><br><div>Begin forwarded message:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>From: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica';">Scheidegger Christian <<a href="mailto:christian.scheidegger@zb.uzh.ch">christian.scheidegger@zb.uzh.ch</a>><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Subject: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica';"><b>[Provenienz] RDA</b><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Date: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica';">2014 December 4 at 7:45:29 EST<br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>To: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica';">"'<a href="mailto:provenienz@dlist.uni-frankfurt.de">provenienz@dlist.uni-frankfurt.de</a>'" <<a href="mailto:provenienz@dlist.uni-frankfurt.de">provenienz@dlist.uni-frankfurt.de</a>><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Reply-To: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica';"><a href="mailto:provenienz@dlist.uni-frankfurt.de">provenienz@dlist.uni-frankfurt.de</a><br></span></div><br><div><div lang="DE-CH" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" style="font-family: BellMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;">Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;">Was meinen Sie als Fachleute des alten Buches zu folgendem?<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;">[Erscheinungsort nicht ermittelbar]: [Verlag nicht ermittelbar] …<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;">So muss bei unfirmierten Drucken die Erscheinungsangabe nach RDA-Regelwerk lauten, selbst wenn nicht ermittelt wurde. Soll man diese Regel unwidersprochen hinnehmen?<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;">Wenigstens hätte die englische Vorlage richtig übersetzt werden müssen (Place of publication not identified = Erscheinungsort nicht ermittelt), doch warum bleibt man nicht bei<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;">Sine loco, sine nomine oder abgekürzt s.l., s.n.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;">Diese Ausdrücke werden im bibliographischen Kontext am häufigsten gebraucht, wenn Erscheinungsort und Offizin nicht bekannt sind. Zudem sind sie international verständlich.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;">Im entstehenden RDA-Toolkit für Alte Drucke stört noch mehr. Schade, dass bei der Erarbeitung dieses Regelwerks nur Bibliothekare beteiligt sind und Buchhistoriker (weitgehend?) fehlen. Ich würde mich über Ihre Rückmeldung freuen und würde diese gerne an die zuständige RDA-Themengruppe weiterleiten.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;">Freundliche Grüsse<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;">Christian Scheidegger<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: 'MS Mincho';"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'MS Mincho';">❦<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;">Christian Scheidegger</span><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;">Stv. Leiter Abt. Alte Drucke und Rara<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;">Zentralbibliothek Zürich<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;">Zähringerplatz 6<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;">CH-8001 Zürich<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif;">Tel +41 44 268 31 85<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: Georgia, serif;">Fax +41 44 268 32 92<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span><a href="mailto:christian.scheidegger@zb.uzh.ch" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: Georgia, serif; color: blue;">christian.scheidegger@zb.uzh.ch</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: Georgia, serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span><a href="x-msg://106/www.zb.uzh.ch" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; color: blue;">www.zb.uzh.ch</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>Provenienz mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Provenienz@dlist.uni-frankfurt.de" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;">Provenienz@dlist.uni-frankfurt.de</a><br><a href="https://dlist.server.uni-frankfurt.de/mailman/listinfo/provenienz" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;">https://dlist.server.uni-frankfurt.de/mailman/listinfo/provenienz</a></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>