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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Concerning the “infinitely more sensible” [12], 72, [10], 48, [6], 228, [16] pages: hear, hear!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The other is far too wordy, deviates too far from the pattern in which bibliographers have been trained (and will still be encountering in the printed bibliographies and catalogues they
consult), and does not give as speedy or concise an impression of the book.#<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Karen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">Dr Karen Attar<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">Rare Books Librarian<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">Senate House Library, University of London<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">Senate House<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">Malet St<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">London<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">WC1E 7HU<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">Tel. 020 7862 8472<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"><a href="http://research.sas.ac.uk/search/fellow/516/dr-karen-attar/">http://research.sas.ac.uk/search/fellow/516/dr-karen-attar/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black">The University of London is an exempt charity in England and Wales. We are committed to achieving a 20% cut in emissions from University buildings by 2015. Please think before you print</span></i><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Lapka, Francis<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 11 June 2015 21:30<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] revision of extent, dimensions, etc. (ALA proposal)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks Deborah.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D">I assume that you are advocating for the infinitely more sensible: [12], 72, [10], 48, [6], 228, [16] pages<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D">If RDA adopts the idea of a separate element for pagination and foliation, I wonder if there’s now a stronger argument for reverting to the traditional form for such statements.
That is, if pagination is a sort of transcription (now divorced from extent), and if the identification of unnumbered pages is a form of supplied information within a transcription,
<i>then</i> RDA (per 2.2.4) tells us that the use of square brackets is a valid way to indicate that the information is supplied. So the traditional format for recording pagination would actually be more in tune with RDA principles (for transcription) than
the “unnumbered pages” nonsense.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D">I’d be happy to raise this idea when we present the proposal to CC:DA (what fun that discussion might be!); and/or Matthew or I could post such an argument on the CC:DA
blog, in advance of the meeting.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> <a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu">
dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a> [<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu">mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Deborah J. Leslie<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 11, 2015 3:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] revision of extent, dimensions, etc. (ALA proposal)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"ArialMT",serif">I think the general proposal makes excellent sense. However, I am dismayed to see that the pagination and foliation element would still
leave us with this ungainly statement: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"ArialMT",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"ArialMT",serif">12 unnumbered pages, 72 pages, 10 unnumbered pages, 48<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"ArialMT",serif">pages, 6 unnumbered pages, 228 pages, 16 unnumbered<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"ArialMT",serif">pages</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#993366"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#993366"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#31849B">Deborah J. Leslie | Folger Shakespeare Library |
</span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:djleslie@folger.edu"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">djleslie@folger.edu</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#31849B"> | 202.675-0369 | 201 East Capitol St., SE, Washington, DC 20003 | www.
folger.edu<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#993366"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
</span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> [</span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Lapka, Francis<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 10 June 2015 10:04<br>
<b>To:</b> </span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [DCRM-L] revision of extent, dimensions, etc. (ALA proposal)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">Hi all.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">I call your attention to an RDA revision proposal that will be discussed in the CC:DA meeting at Annual:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">Task Force on Machine-Actionable Data Elements in RDA Chapter 3 : Revision Proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__alcts.ala.org_ccdablog_-3Fp-3D2032&d=AwMFAg&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=t7GDkvcZa922K6iya7a6MxgVxxw7OjL0m1rPBXkflk4&m=AIMB40I0lcZrVq_HfybnwsKNYFjzXEqHWIEqujk9Jy0&s=B1LZA2oMP_sCOiM2VXJuP5xz7CiFf9ouiFBkXbFTPJU&e="><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">http://alcts.ala.org/ccdablog/?p=2032</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">The proposal suggests major changes to RDA for Extent and Dimensions, as well as Duration. The primary aim is to allow numerical measurements to be recorded in a machine-actionable
fashion, applying controlled vocabularies for measurement types, units, etc. In so doing, RDA would incorporate changes already introduced in cataloging standards of the museum and archival communities. The potential benefits are best outlined in the task
force’s first discussion paper: </span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__alcts.ala.org_ccdablog_wp-2Dcontent_uploads_2012_06_tf-2Dmrdata3.pdf&d=AwMFAg&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=t7GDkvcZa922K6iya7a6MxgVxxw7OjL0m1rPBXkflk4&m=AIMB40I0lcZrVq_HfybnwsKNYFjzXEqHWIEqujk9Jy0&s=mUAA8fwJAa4VOKNgCjaiMyyJ4eR49OKUP4FaDa5Ds0M&e="><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">http://alcts.ala.org/ccdablog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/tf-mrdata3.pdf</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">Now let’s get to the fun stuff.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">In its review of Extent, the task force proposes greater adherence to the FRBR model by creating a new data element for Extent of the Content. For some formats, it has long been standard
practice to record a quantification of content as Extent, e.g. 3 maps, 1 drawing, or 2 scores. The proposal suggests that such information should now be recorded as an attribute of the Expression. For the DCRM community, this change most impacts descriptions
for Cartographic, Graphic, and Music resources. Extent of the <i>carrier</i> for such material would now be recorded in terms of sheets, volumes, etc., as appropriate (for more, see page 134 of the proposal).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">The proposal also suggests a change that would impact all DCRM formats: a new element for Pagination and Foliation, which would re-purpose many of the instructions in RDA 3.4.5 Extent
of Text. We suggest this change because pagination and foliation data is fundamentally different than that recorded for other varieties of Extent of the Carrier. That is, only for subunits of volumes do we emphasize how the resource
<i>self-represents</i> its numeration. This practice is more like transcription than true measurement (for more, see pages 9-11 and 56 of the proposal).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">I’m happy to explain (and/or reconsider) anything in the proposal that is unclear or troublesome.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">For those of you thinking “Egad!” or other oaths, rest assured that these changes are too major to be introduced quickly; and in places, there’s still obvious work to do. You will have
plenty of opportunity to shape how the proposal goes forward. Matthew Haugen (RBMS Liaison to CC:DA), Liz O’Keefe (ARLIS/NA Liaison to CC:DA, and contributor the proposal), and I are all keen to convey your sentiments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">Francis<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif">Francis Lapka · Catalog Librarian<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif">Department of Rare Books and Manuscripts<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif">Yale Center for British Art<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif">203.432.9672 ·
</span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:francis.lapka@yale.edu"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif">francis.lapka@yale.edu</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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