<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">To follow up on Deborah's email: the DCRM task force encountered some confusion about the definition and treatment of double plates in DCRM and RDA, so we appreciate the feedback that might improve those definitions and instructions.</span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">I understand a double leaf to be sewn or tipped in with the fold at one of the outer edges of the volume, functioning as one leaf because it cannot be unfolded, with blank versos facing inside the fold that are not meant to be seen. An entire volume may consist of double leaves, as in the case of books in traditional East Asian format, or isolated double-leaf plates bound in with a letterpress volume. </span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">This seems to stand in contrast to:</span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">-two leaves joined by a fold on an outer edge, but which are meant to be opened by the binder or reader and to function as two leaves.</span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">-tw</span>o conjugate leaves sewn or tipped in with the fold at the inner margin, which function as two leaves, much like any other conjugate pair of leaves in the volume.</div><div><br></div><div>-a folded leaf, which may have one or more folds and which may open out to other dimensions relative to the volume besides "double", but functions as one leaf.</div><div><br></div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">If a double leaf has been opened by a subsequent binder or owner, And this is not apparent I imagine it would just be counted as two leaves without a note, or if it is apparent it could be handled in a local note.</span></div><div><br></div><div>Matt</div><div><br>Matthew<span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"> C. Haugen</span><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0);font-size:13pt">Rare Book Cataloger</span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0);font-size:13pt">102 Butler Library</span></div><div><font style="font-size:13pt"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Columbia University </span></font><span style="font-size:13pt;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Libraries</span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0);font-size:13pt">E-mail: <a href="mailto:matthew.haugen@columbia.edu">matthew.haugen@columbia.edu</a></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0);font-size:13pt">Phone: </span><a href="tel:212-851-2451" style="font-size:13pt">212-851-2451</a><div dir="ltr"><font><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div></div></font></div></div></div><div><br>On Jun 30, 2015, at 2:21 PM, JOHN LANCASTER <<a href="mailto:jjlancaster@me.com">jjlancaster@me.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252">Somehow Deborah’s original question didn’t make it into my inbox (iCloud has been behaving oddly recently), but I think she’s confusing two different things.<div><br></div><div>Perhaps she’s thinking of the old problem of plates that can be bound either as folding (attached on one edge and opening out) or “double” (sewn through or pasted at a fold). But those are a different kind of “double leaf”. I can’t recall ever seeing inserted plates printed on double leaves unopened at top or fore-edge.</div><div><br></div><div>I’ll (un)happily join Richard in flogging the dead horse, though the animal will never revive - the DCRM(B) definition of “plate” is like the rule to describe all 1- and 2-page printings as “1 sheet”, written in the closest thing to stone available in the electronic age.</div><div><br></div><div>John Lancaster</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Jun 30, 2015, at 4:53 PM, Noble, Richard <<a href="mailto:richard_noble@brown.edu">richard_noble@brown.edu</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">Double leaves intended to function as such, and to be bound as here described (whether or not the binding is correct in a given copy) are worth this degree of special attention--they may be an issue point (=evidence of variant manifestation), most likely as taken together with other evidence, but still ...<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">Under caption "Beating Dead Horse": It simply isn't appropriate to refer to letterpress leaves as "plates"; it's one of the fundamental principles of bibliographical analysis. I would have no trouble with "[2] folded letterpress leaves" in the 300 field--where explicit "letterpress" acts as a confirmation that the leaves are <i>not</i> plates. I'd go so far (self irony) as to concede that <i>inserted</i> relief illustrations could be referred to as plates (leaves or pages), even though they may have been printed in the same operation. On the other hand, I suppose general use of "plates" makes less of a demand on cataloger knowledge/judgment where a complete inventory of physical bits is of principal concern.<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><font face="'courier new', monospace">RICHARD NOBLE :: RARE MATERIALS CATALOGUER :: JOHN HAY LIBRARY</font><div><font face="'courier new', monospace">BROWN UNIVERSITY :: PROVIDENCE, R.I. 02912 :: 401-863-1187</font></div><div><span style="font-family:'courier new',monospace"><</span><a href="mailto:RICHARD_NOBLE@BROWN.EDU" style="font-family:'courier new',monospace" target="_blank">Richard_Noble@Br</a><span style="font-family:'courier new',monospace"><a href="http://own.edu/" target="_blank">own.edu</a></span><span style="font-family:'courier new',monospace">></span></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 2:53 PM, Deborah J. Leslie <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:DJLeslie@folger.edu" target="_blank">DJLeslie@folger.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div><p class="MsoNormal">Is there any useful reason to maintain separate treatment of folded leaves of plates vs. double leaves?
<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">DCRM(B)<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">5B9.3. Leaves or pages of plates<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a name="14e3b85870557edc_dcrmbUNDERSCORE0982"></a>Record folded
<span>leaves</span> as <span>leaves</span> or pages of
<a href="http://desktop.loc.gov/search?view=document&doc_action=setdoc&doc_keytype=foliodestination&doc_key=dcrmbPlateSLASHglossary&hash=PlateSLASHglossary&fq=myresources%7Ctrue" title="PlateSLASHglossary" target="_blank">
plates</a>. Make a note to indicate any folded <a href="http://desktop.loc.gov/search?view=document&doc_action=setdoc&doc_keytype=foliodestination&doc_key=dcrmbLetterpressSLASHglossary&hash=LetterpressSLASHglossary&fq=myresources%7Ctrue" title="LetterpressSLASHglossary" target="_blank">
letterpress</a> <span>leaves</span>, <a href="http://desktop.loc.gov/search?view=document&doc_action=setdoc&doc_keytype=foliodestination&doc_key=dcrmbIfSPACEconsideredSPACEimportant&hash=IfSPACEconsideredSPACEimportant&fq=myresources%7Ctrue" title="IfSPACEconsideredSPACEimportant" target="_blank">
if considered important</a>. <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><a name="14e3b85870557edc_dcrmbUNDERSCORE0983"></a>50, [2] p., [2] folded
<span>leaves</span> of plates <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span><a href="http://desktop.loc.gov/search?view=document&doc_action=setdoc&doc_keytype=foliodestination&doc_key=dcrmbOptionalSPACEnote&hash=OptionalSPACEnote&fq=myresources%7Ctrue" title="OptionalSPACEnote" target="_blank">Optional
note</a><a name="14e3b85870557edc_dcrmbUNDERSCORE0984"></a>:</span> The folded
<span>leaves</span> are <a href="http://desktop.loc.gov/search?view=document&doc_action=setdoc&doc_keytype=foliodestination&doc_key=dcrmbLetterpressSLASHglossary&hash=LetterpressSLASHglossary&fq=myresources%7Ctrue" title="LetterpressSLASHglossary" target="_blank">
letterpress</a> tables <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">5B11. <span>Double</span> <span>
leaves</span> <span><a href="http://desktop.loc.gov/search?&view=document&doc_action=setdoc&doc_keytype=foliodestination&doc_key=aacr22PERIOD5B11&hash=2PERIOD5B11&fq=myresources%7Ctrue" target="_blank"><span style="color:blue;text-decoration:none"><image001.png></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a name="14e3b85870557edc_dcrmbUNDERSCORE0992"></a>Count numbered
<span>double</span> <span>leaves</span> (<span>leaves</span> with fold at either top or fore edge and bound at the inner margin) as pages or as
<span>leaves</span> according to their numbering. Count unnumbered
<span>double</span> <span>leaves</span> as pages (2 printed pages per
<span>double</span> leaf) or as <span>
leaves</span> (1 printed page per <span>double</span> leaf). Always indicate the presence of
<span>double</span> <span>leaves</span> in a note.
<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><a name="14e3b85870557edc_dcrmbUNDERSCORE0993"></a>[36] p.
<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span><a href="http://desktop.loc.gov/search?view=document&doc_action=setdoc&doc_keytype=foliodestination&doc_key=dcrmbNote&hash=Note&fq=myresources%7Ctrue" title="Note" target="_blank">Note</a><a name="14e3b85870557edc_dcrmbUNDERSCORE0994"></a>:</span>
Printed on <span>double</span> <span>
leaves</span> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><a name="14e3b85870557edc_dcrmbUNDERSCORE0995"></a>[18]
<span>leaves</span> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span><a href="http://desktop.loc.gov/search?view=document&doc_action=setdoc&doc_keytype=foliodestination&doc_key=dcrmbNote&hash=Note&fq=myresources%7Ctrue" title="Note" target="_blank">Note</a><a name="14e3b85870557edc_dcrmbUNDERSCORE0996"></a>:</span>
Printed on 18 <span>double</span> <span>
leaves</span> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><a name="14e3b85870557edc_dcrmbUNDERSCORE0997"></a>72 p., 1 leaf of plates
<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span><a href="http://desktop.loc.gov/search?view=document&doc_action=setdoc&doc_keytype=foliodestination&doc_key=dcrmbNote&hash=Note&fq=myresources%7Ctrue" title="Note" target="_blank">Note</a><a name="14e3b85870557edc_dcrmbUNDERSCORE0998"></a>:</span> <a href="http://desktop.loc.gov/search?view=document&doc_action=setdoc&doc_keytype=foliodestination&doc_key=dcrmbPlateSLASHglossary&hash=PlateSLASHglossary&fq=myresources%7Ctrue" title="PlateSLASHglossary" target="_blank">Plate</a>
printed on a <span>double</span> leaf <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Deborah J. Leslie, for the DCRM/RDA Task Group<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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