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I too agree with the 2nd formula. Many of the books I catalog are
far too obscure to be found in a bibliography (let alone one in
SCF), but have been explicated in articles or monographs, whose
supporting data is mined by the cataloger to formulate the bib
record. Evidence is evidence, and the 510 seems like the standard
place to park it, even if it's not derived from a bibliography. <br>
<br>
Lenore<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Lenore M. Rouse
Curator, Rare Books and Special Collections
The Catholic University of America
Room 214, Mullen Library
620 Michigan Avenue N.E.
Washington, D.C. 20064
PHONE: 202 319-5090
E-MAIL: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rouse@cua.edu">rouse@cua.edu</a>
RBSC BLOG: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://ascendonica.blogspot.com/">http://ascendonica.blogspot.com/</a>
</pre>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/9/2015 9:08 AM, Lapka, Francis
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CB3CDDB2BAB30D4391C12A1A02DB1A45416F1B7C@x10-mbx5.yu.yale.edu"
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D">I
think Manon’s example merits use of a 510, as illustrated in
her 2<sup>nd</sup> approach. Both approaches are valid, but
using a 510 offers greater potential to collocate all
resources described by the reference source (Hunter) – and
such collocation is a plausible user task.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D">Francis<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu">mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Manon Theroux<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, August 09, 2015 2:59 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] 510 citations<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Deborah,<br>
<br>
Thanks! I had actually been about to follow up my original
message with an example. I'll send it anyway.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I was wavering between the following
two approaches:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div style="margin-left:30.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">500 "Probably the first publication
to be printed on American machine-made paper"--Hunter,
D. Papermaking (2nd ed.), page 351<br>
<br>
vs.<br>
<br>
500 "Probably the first publication to be printed on
American machine-made paper"--Hunter.<br>
510 Hunter, D. Papermaking (2nd ed.), $c page 351<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hunter is a history of papermaking, not
a bibliography or catalog. The sentence in Hunter that
contains the quoted text actually does cite the atlas
being cataloged, but only briefly; wasn't sure it
qualified as a "published description":
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="margin-left:30.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">" ...
the well-known book-printing firm of Matthew Carey and
Son, Philadelphia, used the Gilpin paper for the text,
charts, and maps of the 1820 and 1821 editions of N.
Lavoisne's
<i>A Complete Genealogical, Historical, Chronological,
and Geographical Atlas</i>, probably the first
publication to be printed on American machine-made
paper."<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I guess
even if Hunter doesn't go in a 510, the form of the Hunter
citation in the 500 could still follow SCF guidelines
(even if it shouldn't be proposed for inclusion in SCF
because it doesn't fit the stated scope). <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Manon<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 10:12 AM,
Deborah J. Leslie <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:DJLeslie@folger.edu" target="_blank">DJLeslie@folger.edu</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D">Hi
Manon,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D">I
have always understood that the 510 is to be
reserved for published bibliographical
descriptions, despite the MARC format’s broader
scope, and that references to other kinds of
sources belong in a general note.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Deborah
J. Leslie | Folger Shakespeare Library |
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:djleslie@folger.ed">djleslie@folger.ed</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu"
target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu"
target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Manon Theroux<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 20 July 20 2015 14:41<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Revision Group List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [DCRM-L] 510 citations</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi,
everyone:<br>
<br>
I could use some clarification on citing
resources in the MARC21 510 field. If the
resource to be cited is NOT a bibliography
or catalog and doesn't contain a
bibliographic description of the resource
being cataloged, can the 510 field still be
used for the citation or should the citation
be incorporated into the general note? For
example, citing an entry for a printer in a
biographical dictionary to justified
supplied dates in the 26X or citing an
academic monograph to justify an attributed
name. DCRM(B) suggests that you can ("or
other authoritative reference sources") and
points to SCF as a standard, but the SCF
scope statement itself is a bit narrower:
"bibliographies and catalogs (printed or
electronic) that are useful in verifying,
identifying, or describing items held in
rare book or special collections libraries
and that have been or are likely to be cited
in bibliographic records, trade catalog
descriptions, and bibliographies."
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Below
are the relevant bits from DCRM(B), SCF, and
MARC21.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Manon<br>
<br>
--<br>
Manon Théroux<br>
Head of Technical Services<br>
U.S. Senate Library<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">===================<br>
DCRM(B):<br>
7B14. References to published descriptions<br>
7B14.1. Give references to published
descriptions in bibliographies or other
authoritative reference sources if these
have been used to supply elements of the
description. Use the form and punctuation
conventions recommended by Standard Citation
Forms for Published Bibliographies and
Catalogs Used in Rare Book Cataloging. Begin
the note with the word “References” and a
colon.<br>
References: Evans 24658<br>
(Comment: Made in conjunction with a general
note reading: “Publication date<br>
from Evans”)<br>
<br>
7B14.2. Make other references to published
descriptions, if considered important. Such
references are especially useful whenever
the cited source would serve to distinguish
an edition (or variant) from similar
editions (or variants), substantiate
information provided by the cataloger, or
provide a more detailed description of the
publication being cataloged.<br>
References: Gaskell, P. Baskerville, 17<br>
References: ESTC (CD-ROM, 2003 ed.) T60996<br>
References: Lindsay & Neu. French
political pamphlets, 2194<br>
References: BM STC Italian, 1465-1600, p.
368<br>
References: Ritter, F. Incun. alsaciens de
la Bib. nat. de Strasbourg, 277<br>
References: Palau y Dulcet (2. ed.) 19161<br>
<br>
7B14.3. A general note may be made if a
description of the publication being
cataloged does not appear in a specific
bibliographical reference source. Make such
a note only if the publication fits the
scope for that source and the source
purports to be comprehensive for its scope.
Preface the general note with the words “Not
in” and a colon.<br>
Not in: Martin & Walter. Révolution
française. Cf. IV:2, 9093<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
-----------------------<br>
SCF Working Principles <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__rbms.info_scf_working-2Dprinciples_&d=AwMFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=t7GDkvcZa922K6iya7a6MxgVxxw7OjL0m1rPBXkflk4&m=yXDQTFGV8t6OGYM2Ri-tT_AqZe7T7u7YWwQZetruaBA&s=fhqrUm21Ht9V7gVCLQUnWe6lwzbMVUmhhFYvloCBbqY&e="
target="_blank">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://rbms.info/scf/working-principles/">http://rbms.info/scf/working-principles/</a></a><br>
<br>
Scope: <br>
<br>
This database includes bibliographies and
catalogs (printed or electronic) that are
useful in verifying, identifying, or
describing items held in rare book or
special collections libraries and that have
been or are likely to be cited in
bibliographic records, trade catalog
descriptions, and bibliographies.<br>
<br>
MARC 21 Bibliographic Format, Application:<br>
<br>
Use the citation forms recommended in this
list when creating citation/references notes
(field 510) in a MARC 21 bibliographic
record. These notes are described in
Descriptive Cataloging for Rare Materials
(Books) 7B14.2 and other DCRM manuals.<br>
<br>
The citation/references note (510) field
provides a simple bibliographical citation
for a published description of an item and
specifies where in the resources that
description appears; do not include other
information. If necessary, use a general
note (field 500) to record additional
information provided by the resource cited.
Create a citation/references note (510)
field for titles which might be useful for
retrieval, even in cases where this would
involve repetition of information already
recorded in a general note:<br>
<br>
General note (500) field:<br>
<br>
500 __ $a Evans calls this the 2nd edition.<br>
<br>
Citation/references note (510) field:<br>
<br>
510 4_ $a Evans, C. American bibliography,
$c entry 14023<br>
<br>
-----------------------<br>
MARC21, 510 Field <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.loc.gov_marc_bibliographic_bd510.html&d=AwMFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=t7GDkvcZa922K6iya7a6MxgVxxw7OjL0m1rPBXkflk4&m=yXDQTFGV8t6OGYM2Ri-tT_AqZe7T7u7YWwQZetruaBA&s=JJr6lxfnH5QA8nLOGZ41DJaXbws6jv3h3aDxQUS1vqY&e="
target="_blank">
https://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd510.html</a><br>
<br>
Definition and Scope:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p>Citations or references to published
bibliographic descriptions, reviews,
abstracts, or indexes of the content of
the described item.
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p>Used to specify where an item has been
cited or reviewed. Citations or references
may be given in a brief form (i.e., using
generally recognizable abbreviations, etc.).
The actual text of a published description
is not recorded in field 510 but rather in
field 520 (Summary, Etc. Note). <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>For <b>books</b> and <b>music</b>, this
field contains references to published
descriptions of the item (e.g., descriptions
of rare materials recorded in a brief,
standardized format) or reviews (e.g.,
reviews in professional literature).
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>For <b>continuing resources</b>, this
field is used to specify publications in
which a continuing resource has been indexed
and/or abstracted and the dates of coverage,
if known. The indexing and abstracting
services referenced are primarily those
issued as continuing resources. Certain
monographic titles, particularly those that
are standard reference tools in a subject
area or that cover periods of time not
included in continuing publications, may
also be given in this field.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>For unpublished <b>visual materials</b> or
graphic items collectively controlled, this
field contains references to published
descriptions of the work or collection.
Citations to reviews of projected
<b>visual materials</b> are also recorded in
this field. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>For <b>mixed materials</b>, this field
contains references to publications in which
abstracts, citations, descriptions, or
indexes of the described materials have
appeared.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">
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