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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times">Here is a second example, somewhat different from the first, where the resource
being cataloged is not described in the reference source at all, even in brief
form. So maybe there is a stronger case for avoiding the 510 field in this one? The reference source is being used to justify the supplied range of
publication dates:<br>
<br>
26X ... $c [between 1791 and 1820?]<br>
500 John Cary was associated with the no. 181 Strand address between 1791
and 1820; see Maxted, I. London book trades, 1775-1800.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times">vs.<br>
<br>
26X $c [between 1791 and 1820?]<br>
500 John Cary was associated with the no. 181 Strand address between 1791
and 1820; see Maxted<br>
510 Maxted, I. London book trades, 1775-1800</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times">Maxted is not a
bibliography or catalog. It is a directory (its subtitle is "a preliminary
checklist of members") containing a list of book trade personnel. Each
entry is annotated with information about when/where that person/firm operated.
At least some entries also include a list of books produced by the person/firm,
but I don't know if such lists are intended to be complete. The entry for Cary
does not cite the resource being cataloged; a page number could be provided in
the Maxted reference but it would refer only to the page on which the Cary
entry appeared, not to a published description of the item being cataloged, so I omitted it (though in a 500 field I think it would not be as potentially misleading as in a 510 field). </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times">Note that Maxted also
issued a separate related publication, with the same title proper and the
subtitle "a topographical guide ..."), which appears to be organized
by street address rather than by person/firm. So, maybe the citation form in
500/510 would need some qualifying information, which I think SCF principles
would have us add in parentheses, something like this:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times">Maxted, I. London book
trades, 1775-1800 (preliminary checklist of members)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times">Both of these
Maxted works have been (or are in the process of being) coverted to online
resources on the Exeter Working Papers in Book History website:
<a href="http://bookhistory.blogspot.co.uk/">http://bookhistory.blogspot.co.uk/</a> (see under London>Book trade personnel,
1775-1800)</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><br><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times">Manon<br></span></p>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 2:58 AM, Manon Theroux <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:manon.theroux@gmail.com" target="_blank">manon.theroux@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Deborah,<br><br>Thanks! I had actually been about to follow up my original message with an example. I'll send it anyway.<br><br></div><div>I was wavering between the following two approaches:<br></div><div><br><div style="margin-left:40px">500 "Probably the first publication to be printed on American machine-made paper"--Hunter, D. Papermaking (2nd ed.), page 351<br><br>vs.<br><br>500 "Probably the first publication to be printed on American machine-made paper"--Hunter.<br>510 Hunter, D. Papermaking (2nd ed.), $c page 351<br></div><br></div><div>Hunter is a history of papermaking, not a bibliography or
catalog. The sentence in Hunter that contains the quoted text actually
does cite the atlas being cataloged, but
only briefly; wasn't sure it qualified as a "published description": <br><div style="margin-left:40px">" ... the
well-known book-printing firm of Matthew Carey and Son, Philadelphia,
used the Gilpin paper for the text, charts, and maps of the 1820 and
1821 editions of N. Lavoisne's <i>A Complete Genealogical, Historical, Chronological, and Geographical Atlas</i>, probably the first publication to be printed on American machine-made paper."<br><br></div>I guess even if Hunter doesn't go in a 510, the form of the Hunter citation in the 500 could still follow SCF guidelines (even if it shouldn't be proposed for inclusion in SCF because it doesn't fit the stated scope). <br><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br></font></span></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div>Manon<br></div></font></span><div><div class="h5"><div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 10:12 AM, Deborah J. Leslie <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:DJLeslie@folger.edu" target="_blank">DJLeslie@folger.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d">Hi Manon,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d">I have always understood that the 510 is to be reserved for published bibliographical descriptions, despite the MARC format’s broader scope, and that references
to other kinds of sources belong in a general note. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Deborah J. Leslie | Folger Shakespeare Library | djleslie@folger.ed<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Manon Theroux<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 20 July 20 2015 14:41<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Revision Group List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [DCRM-L] 510 citations<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi, everyone:<br>
<br>
I could use some clarification on citing resources in the MARC21 510 field. If the resource to be cited is NOT a bibliography or catalog and doesn't contain a bibliographic description of the resource being cataloged, can the 510 field still be used for the
citation or should the citation be incorporated into the general note? For example, citing an entry for a printer in a biographical dictionary to justified supplied dates in the 26X or citing an academic monograph to justify an attributed name. DCRM(B) suggests
that you can ("or other authoritative reference sources") and points to SCF as a standard, but the SCF scope statement itself is a bit narrower: "bibliographies and catalogs (printed or electronic) that are useful in verifying, identifying, or describing items
held in rare book or special collections libraries and that have been or are likely to be cited in bibliographic records, trade catalog descriptions, and bibliographies."
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Below are the relevant bits from DCRM(B), SCF, and MARC21.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks!<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Manon<br>
<br>
--<br>
Manon Théroux<br>
Head of Technical Services<br>
U.S. Senate Library<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">===================<br>
DCRM(B):<br>
7B14. References to published descriptions<br>
7B14.1. Give references to published descriptions in bibliographies or other authoritative reference sources if these have been used to supply elements of the description. Use the form and punctuation conventions recommended by Standard Citation Forms for Published
Bibliographies and Catalogs Used in Rare Book Cataloging. Begin the note with the word “References” and a colon.<br>
References: Evans 24658<br>
(Comment: Made in conjunction with a general note reading: “Publication date<br>
from Evans”)<br>
<br>
7B14.2. Make other references to published descriptions, if considered important. Such references are especially useful whenever the cited source would serve to distinguish an edition (or variant) from similar editions (or variants), substantiate information
provided by the cataloger, or provide a more detailed description of the publication being cataloged.<br>
References: Gaskell, P. Baskerville, 17<br>
References: ESTC (CD-ROM, 2003 ed.) T60996<br>
References: Lindsay & Neu. French political pamphlets, 2194<br>
References: BM STC Italian, 1465-1600, p. 368<br>
References: Ritter, F. Incun. alsaciens de la Bib. nat. de Strasbourg, 277<br>
References: Palau y Dulcet (2. ed.) 19161<br>
<br>
7B14.3. A general note may be made if a description of the publication being cataloged does not appear in a specific bibliographical reference source. Make such a note only if the publication fits the scope for that source and the source purports to be comprehensive
for its scope. Preface the general note with the words “Not in” and a colon.<br>
Not in: Martin & Walter. Révolution française. Cf. IV:2, 9093<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
-----------------------<br>
SCF Working Principles <a href="http://rbms.info/scf/working-principles/" target="_blank">http://rbms.info/scf/working-principles/</a><br>
<br>
Scope: <br>
<br>
This database includes bibliographies and catalogs (printed or electronic) that are useful in verifying, identifying, or describing items held in rare book or special collections libraries and that have been or are likely to be cited in bibliographic records,
trade catalog descriptions, and bibliographies.<br>
<br>
MARC 21 Bibliographic Format, Application:<br>
<br>
Use the citation forms recommended in this list when creating citation/references notes (field 510) in a MARC 21 bibliographic record. These notes are described in Descriptive Cataloging for Rare Materials (Books) 7B14.2 and other DCRM manuals.<br>
<br>
The citation/references note (510) field provides a simple bibliographical citation for a published description of an item and specifies where in the resources that description appears; do not include other information. If necessary, use a general note (field
500) to record additional information provided by the resource cited. Create a citation/references note (510) field for titles which might be useful for retrieval, even in cases where this would involve repetition of information already recorded in a general
note:<br>
<br>
General note (500) field:<br>
<br>
500 __ $a Evans calls this the 2nd edition.<br>
<br>
Citation/references note (510) field:<br>
<br>
510 4_ $a Evans, C. American bibliography, $c entry 14023<br>
<br>
-----------------------<br>
MARC21, 510 Field <a href="https://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd510.html" target="_blank">https://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd510.html</a><br>
<br>
Definition and Scope:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p>Citations or references to published bibliographic descriptions, reviews, abstracts, or indexes of the content of the described item.
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p>Used to specify where an item has been cited or reviewed. Citations or references may be given in a brief form (i.e., using generally recognizable abbreviations, etc.). The actual text of a published description is not recorded in field 510 but rather in
field 520 (Summary, Etc. Note). <u></u><u></u></p>
<p>For <b>books</b> and <b>music</b>, this field contains references to published descriptions of the item (e.g., descriptions of rare materials recorded in a brief, standardized format) or reviews (e.g., reviews in professional literature).
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>For <b>continuing resources</b>, this field is used to specify publications in which a continuing resource has been indexed and/or abstracted and the dates of coverage, if known. The indexing and abstracting services referenced are primarily those
issued as continuing resources. Certain monographic titles, particularly those that are standard reference tools in a subject area or that cover periods of time not included in continuing publications, may also be given in this field.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>For unpublished <b>visual materials</b> or graphic items collectively controlled, this field contains references to published descriptions of the work or collection. Citations to reviews of projected
<b>visual materials</b> are also recorded in this field. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p>For <b>mixed materials</b>, this field contains references to publications in which abstracts, citations, descriptions, or indexes of the described materials have appeared.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>