<div dir="ltr"><div>Francis,<br><br><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d"> <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Re your first point:</span><br><br>RDA defines a devised title as “A title proper *<b>created by an agency</b>*
 preparing a description of a resource that bears no title
 itself and has no title associated with it that can be found in other 
sources …” (my emphasis added). If we record the opening words of a 
text, etc., as the title proper, the agency is not creating the title, 
so it is not really devised; so does that option
 really fit here?"<br><br></span></div><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">I think recording the opening words of a text does count as devising a title, because, although it appears on the resource, it is not presented as the title on the resource itself, or, presumably, in other reference sources. How useful this is is a different matter. DCRM(MSS) has a provision under devised title for using the first lin</span>e <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">of the text as the title proper:</span></span><br><br>1B4. 

</span><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Verse.</span></p><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">

</span><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">For a single poem, song, hymn, or other work in verse that
lacks a formal title, use as the title proper the first line of the text. Make
a note on the source of the title.</span></p><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">

</span><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"> </span></p><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">

</span><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Dear friend, thou may'st confide</span></p><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">

</span><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Note: <span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Title from first
line of poem</span></p><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">

</span><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"> </span></p><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">

</span><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Oh God! whose dread and dazzling brow</span></p><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">

</span><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Note: : Title from first line of hymn</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><br><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Poems and songs frequently do come to be named after their first lines, and using this convention provides a useful identifier for the work (especially since it would be hard to come up with a distinctive and/or meaningful title for a poem or song). It may be more problematic for prose works. It could be argued that a devised title that describes the content  better supports finding the resource, OR that a title consisting of the opening lines is preferable, because at least it provides something definite to search. <br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><br><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">I think you should be ready to duck on point two, though I still haven't forged the appropriate missile.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><br><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Liz O'Keefe<br></span></p>

<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 1:22 PM, Lapka, Francis <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:francis.lapka@yale.edu" target="_blank">francis.lapka@yale.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d">I have mixed feeling about the LC proposal on devised titles.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d">My first quibble is pedantic. RDA defines a devised title as “A title proper *<b>created by an agency</b>* preparing a description of a resource that bears no title
 itself and has no title associated with it that can be found in other sources …” (my emphasis added). If we record the opening words of a text, etc., as the title proper, the agency is not creating the title, so it is not really devised; so does that option
 really fit here?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d">My second concern is more substantial. There appears to be significant redundancy between the data recorded as devised title for Title Proper of the manifestation
 and the data recorded as devised title for Title of the Work (see 6.2.2.6.2). For
<i>most</i> of the examples of devised titles in 2.3.2.11 – including the format specific instructions in 2.3.2.11.1-2.3.2.11.4 – the (devised) Title of the Work would be identical. “Typescript draft of chapters 3-20 of Natchez pilgrimage” may be an exception.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d">So perhaps we should reconsider the point of devised titles for manifestations? We might:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d">a) require that a devised title for a manifestation include manifestation-specific information (as in “Typescript draft …”);<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d">or<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d">b) consider that the Title Proper is
<i>always</i> transcribed information (and nothing more). If there’s nothing to transcribe, record nothing.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d">I lean to the latter option. Keep in mind that the Preferred Title for the Work is a core element in RDA, so even if we omit a Title Proper, the devised title for
 the work would still appear in the description of the resource.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d">Should I duck?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d">Francis<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a> [<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Matthew C. Haugen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 11, 2015 3:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [DCRM-L] Review of RDA proposals: Week 2<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">…</span><br>
<br>
<b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Your feedback is especially valuable on these four proposals by</span></b>
<b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">THURSDAY, AUGUST 20:</span></b><br>
<br>
1.<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.rda-2Djsc.org_sites_all_files_6JSC-2DLC-2D32.pdf&d=AwMFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=t7GDkvcZa922K6iya7a6MxgVxxw7OjL0m1rPBXkflk4&m=q_SIp8JGvAd7OYu2GHKZ2ZKnuQqjD052ZRnq0YD7V8Y&s=w5vPuCiYORboIDuHQef2-u3ZbbU6GvKjoLu-KJuonh8&e=" target="_blank"><br>
</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.rda-2Djsc.org_sites_all_files_6JSC-2DLC-2D32.pdf&d=AwMFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=t7GDkvcZa922K6iya7a6MxgVxxw7OjL0m1rPBXkflk4&m=q_SIp8JGvAd7OYu2GHKZ2ZKnuQqjD052ZRnq0YD7V8Y&s=w5vPuCiYORboIDuHQef2-u3ZbbU6GvKjoLu-KJuonh8&e=" target="_blank">6JSC/LC/32:
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black;text-decoration:none">
Revision to instructions for devised titles in RDA 2.3.2.11</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">This proposal seeks to provide greater flexibility for devising titles proper for manuscripts, ephemera, choreographic works, art, collections, etc.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<span style="color:#1f497d">…</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Elizabeth O'Keefe<br>Director of Collection Information Systems<br>The Morgan Library & Museum<br>225 Madison Avenue<br>New York, NY  10016-3405<br> <br>TEL: 212 590-0380<br>FAX: 2127685680<br>NET: <a href="mailto:eokeefe@themorgan.org" target="_blank">eokeefe@themorgan.org</a><br><br>Visit CORSAIR, the Library's comprehensive collections catalog:<br><a href="http://corsair.themorgan.org" target="_blank">http://corsair.themorgan.org</a><br></div></div>
</div>