<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(12,52,61)"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(12,52,61)">Mr. Gemberling writes:<br><br></div></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(12,52,61)"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(12,52,61);margin-left:40px">I think it’s really the job of historians and bibliographers to study the
lives of authors, not catalogers. Of course that information is
valuable and should
be on your library’s record for the book, but I wouldn’t put it on the
master record. Historians have the means to track down the libraries
where authors’ presentation inscriptions are more likely to be.<br><br></div></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(12,52,61)"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(12,52,61)">I beg to differ with your analysis here. It is the job of catalogers to record the important features of the book-in-hand as both a token and as a specific copy, in part because of what Mr. Noble asserted, i.e. information that may indicate that the item provides evidence of a different issue. And, in part because the widely distributed copies of a book (whether expression or manifestation) accumulate history, the role of the CLEARLY IDENTIFIED LOCAL information in the COLLECTIVE catalog is precisely to make available an indication of what that history is.<br><br>As catalogers we <u>record</u> the evidence, we don't <u>interpret</u> it. That's the difference. (Which puts paid to FRBR in the library world, since it requires catalogers to make judgments that require considerable knowledge of the scholarly DOMAIN and to interpret it rather than record it.)<br><br></div></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(12,52,61)"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(12,52,61)">Further, I think the assertion that "historians have the means to track down blah blah blah" is absurd -- that would require communicating directly with EVERY LIBRARY HOLDING A COPY of the book -- what would take a cataloger 5 mins MAX to record will waste HOURS of the time of (largely beleaguered and underfunded) historians. I am reminded of both Cutter and Ranganathan's observation about wasting readers' time.<br><br><img src="cid:ii_ii96zzvf0_151ac32cd65ff43c" height="152" width="513"><br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(12,52,61)">and<br><br><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_laws_of_library_science#Fourth_Law:_Save_the_time_of_the_reader">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_laws_of_library_science#Fourth_Law:_Save_the_time_of_the_reader</a><br><br></div></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(12,52,61)"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(12,52,61)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(12,52,61)">Linde M. Brocato<br></div></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(12,52,61);margin-left:40px"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(12,52,61)"><br>
</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 6:01 PM, Ted P Gemberling <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tgemberl@uab.edu" target="_blank">tgemberl@uab.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Jane,
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">I</span></p><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(12,52,61);display:inline"></div> think it’s really the job of historians and bibliographers to study the lives of authors, not catalogers. Of course that information is valuable and should
be on your library’s record for the book, but I wouldn’t put it on the master record. Historians have the means to track down the libraries where authors’ presentation inscriptions are more likely to be.
<u></u><u></u><p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">For example, we have two books authored by Queen Victoria that have her presentation inscription to her physician. Of course I put a note of that on our local
record, but I wouldn’t put it on the master record unless it were necessary to catalog the book. In other words, if in the preface Queen Victoria had said, “my wonderful physician helped me a great deal in writing this book” and never gave his name, then the
presentation inscription would help identify someone who should be an added entry. But just the fact that he got a copy of it with a presentation inscription will not ordinarily help catalog the book.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Just my two cents. Maybe I’m underestimating the value of local information. Certain kinds of books—especially I’d think manuscripts—make notes like that absolutely
essential. But I don’t think printed books are enlightened very often by inscriptions.
<u></u><u></u></span></p><span class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Ted Gemberling<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">UAB Lister Hill Library<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</span><div>
<div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(181,196,223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jane Stemp Wickenden<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 15, 2015 5:31 PM</span></p><div><div class="h5"><br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] Deletion of copy-specific fields/data from OCLC master?<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt">I recall cataloguing an anonymous 16th-century book at (I think ) Balliol College, in the mid-90s, with the author's presentation inscription in the front (he was a Balliol man). Technically a copy-specific
feature, but of bibliographic significance, as no other copy recorded such an inscription.
<br>
<br>
Apologies; I am evidently reaching my anecdotage. ;)<br>
<br>
Jane<br>
(Oxford University Early Printed Books Project, in the dim and distant days).<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 15 December 2015 21:54:31 GMT+00:00, Ted P Gemberling <<a href="mailto:tgemberl@uab.edu" target="_blank">tgemberl@uab.edu</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Yes, that’s my understanding of what the subfield 5 is for, when you have information that you’re not sure is only of local interest. If your copy proves to you that the note is unnecessary,
go ahead and delete it. But don’t delete all 500’s with subfield 5. As Richard says, they may contain important clues to some mysterious aspect of a book.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I recently cataloged a book with a record created by NLE (National Library of Scotland?). There were a number of local notes on it. I’ll admit I wasn’t bold enough to remove them from the
master record, but since NLE was the only other library using the record, I added $5 NLE to the 500’s.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Ted Gemberling<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">UAB Lister Hill Library<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a> [<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Noble, Richard<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 15, 2015 3:43 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] Deletion of copy-specific fields/data from OCLC master?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">If you do that with
<i>all</i> $5 note fields you might lose one of my precious gems--that is, when it's a feature of Brown's copy (and almost certainly of some but not all other copies) that is the clue to variation within a manifestation (issue, roughly), I will usually tag
it $5 RPB. But perhaps I shouldn't do so, as long as the note explicitly states that the observation is based on the Brown University copy. I don't like such notes that leave one wondering "Where did
<i>that</i> come from?"<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">I'm too old now not to be bold, so I've taken to sweeping LC's local collection (710) and acquisition notes (561) out of master records. If you want such information about LC's holdings, search
their local catalog.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Of course, our opac doesn't even display $5 in its "regular [full, labelled] display", only in our "coded display" (what others call MARC or Staff or Librarian view).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">RICHARD NOBLE :: RARE MATERIALS CATALOGUER :: JOHN HAY LIBRARY</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">BROWN UNIVERSITY :: PROVIDENCE, R.I. 02912 :: 401-863-1187</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New""><</span><a href="mailto:RICHARD_NOBLE@BROWN.EDU" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">Richard_Noble@Br</span></a><span style="font-family:"Courier New""><a href="http://own.edu" target="_blank">own.edu</a>></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 4:21 PM, Randal S. BRANDT <<a href="mailto:rbrandt@library.berkeley.edu" target="_blank">rbrandt@library.berkeley.edu</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I've also gotten bolder with age and now generally delete copy-specific information from OCLC master records. I do make an exception for $5 DLC, however. Not yet bold enough to delete Library of Congress information. <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We also set up a routine job for our Systems Office to sweep the ILS periodically looking for instances of $5 that contain non-UC Berkeley organization codes and remove those fields, whether they be notes or access points, from our local
catalog. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
-- <br>
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div style="text-align:right"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div><span style="color:rgb(32,18,77)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"></span></span><p style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;text-align:right"><span style="color:rgb(32,18,77)"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif">If you don't have a seat at the table you're probably on the menu.<br></span></span></p><p style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;text-align:right"><span style="color:rgb(32,18,77)"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif">-- Elizabeth Warren</span></span></p><p style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;text-align:right"><span style="color:rgb(32,18,77)"><br></span></p><p style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;text-align:right"><span style="color:rgb(32,18,77)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline">The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure <br></span></font></span></span></p><p style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;text-align:right"><span style="color:rgb(32,18,77)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline">and the intelligent are full of doubt.</span></font></span></span></p><p style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;text-align:right"><span style="color:rgb(32,18,77)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline"> -- Bertrand Russell</span></font></span></span></p><p style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;text-align:right"><span style="color:rgb(32,18,77)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline"><br></span></font></span></span></p><p style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;text-align:right"><span style="color:rgb(32,18,77)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline">For conscience to work: either a very strong religious belief</span></font></span></span></p><p style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;text-align:right"><span style="color:rgb(32,18,77)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline">--extremely rare. <br></span></font></span></span></p><p style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;text-align:right"><span style="color:rgb(32,18,77)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline">Or: pride, even arrogance. <br></span></font></span></span></p><p style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;text-align:right"><span style="color:rgb(32,18,77)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline">If you say to yourself in such matters: who am I to judge?</span></font></span></span></p><p style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;text-align:right"><span style="color:rgb(32,18,77)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline">--you are already lost.</span></font></span></span></p><p style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;text-align:right"><span style="color:rgb(32,18,77)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline">-- Hannah Arendt</span></font></span></span></p><p style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;text-align:right"><span style="color:rgb(32,18,77)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline"><br></span></font></span></span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="color:rgb(32,18,77)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline">Every sin is an attempt to fly from emptiness. <br></span></font></span></span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="color:rgb(32,18,77)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline">--Simone Weil, philosopher, mystic, activist (1909-1943)</span></font></span></span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="color:rgb(32,18,77)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline"><br></span></font></span></span></p><span style="color:rgb(32,18,77)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><font>The problem is not that we live in a world of Hobbesian states; <br>it is that we live in a world of failed Hobbesian states.<br></font></span></font></span></span></div><div style="text-align:right"><span style="color:rgb(32,18,77)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><font>--Corey Robin<br></font></span></font></span></span></div><div style="text-align:right"><span style="color:rgb(32,18,77)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"></span><br></font></span></span><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;text-align:right"><span style="color:rgb(32,18,77)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline">Don't sell your soul to buy peanuts for the monkeys.</span></font></span></span></p><span style="color:rgb(32,18,77)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline">--Dorothy Salisbury Davis</span></font></span></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div></div>