<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">There's another angle to be explored here. My first library job was in the Cat Dept at Dartmouth, in 1983, as a rank newcomer to paid library work, and I was expected to produce original records from Day 1. But I was already experienced in working with books as things that people make (and that I had to reverse-engineer), had edited c18 texts and produced supporting descriptive bibliography, and had already started annotating my copy of Bowers. The MARC record was simply another set of familiar boxes to be filled in with what I had learned by informed inspection of the thing to be described. That was my training--nothing left but to spend a week or two getting a handle on the job-specific jargon.<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">The problem with cataloging is that most people aim for the finished record, and really don't start with the thing itself. The record is the goal, but practically unreachable if the starting point is a mystery; on the other hand, if you know how to look at and describe a book, the catalog record is a near no-brainer.<br><br>Granted, the catalog record is a curiously restrictive form, and my first response to AACR2 was "How do I get around all this and tell the story?" The first imperative was to be as creative as possible, to refuse to let the form shape the object, while respecting the integrity of the catalog and its way of using rules as a reliable guide to inference based on the fixed forms of the individual report.<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">That's why it's so hard to start from copy cataloging: the focus is all wrong. You have to start with the question, "What does the catalog want me to know about <i>this book</i>?" What does each element of the record ask me to look for and report? What do I need to know about books to be able to do this almost instinctively? The basic answer is what I've always felt is the chief prerequisite: RBS Des Bib, or its equivalent.<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><font face="'courier new', monospace">RICHARD NOBLE :: RARE MATERIALS CATALOGUER :: JOHN HAY LIBRARY</font><div><font face="'courier new', monospace">BROWN UNIVERSITY :: PROVIDENCE, R.I. 02912 :: 401-863-1187</font></div><div><span style="font-family:'courier new',monospace"><</span><a href="mailto:RICHARD_NOBLE@BROWN.EDU" style="font-family:'courier new',monospace" target="_blank">Richard_Noble@Br</a><span style="font-family:'courier new',monospace"><a href="http://own.edu" target="_blank">own.edu</a></span><span style="font-family:'courier new',monospace">></span></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 4:57 PM, Matthew C. Haugen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:matthew.haugen@columbia.edu" target="_blank">matthew.haugen@columbia.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi Deborah, When I registered for your class in 2009, I was exactly in that group of catalogers with plenty of experience in copy cataloging and far less experience in or opportunity for original cataloging. I believe I had submitted some samples of locally enhanced copy along with some hypothetical original records for resources that probably already had copy. I am very glad I was still accepted into your course, and found it to be highly beneficial both for me and for my institution. So I appreciate your putting this thought into the application and prerequisite expectations to provide for a fair admission process and still have a group of students that wouldn't be left behind in the course.<div><br></div><div>I wonder if a separate Rare Book School course on copy cataloging for rare materials might be useful for this demographic who either have no prior experience in original cataloging or are not likely to do original cataloging after the course? This could still involve lessons on bibliographic history and such, but rather than populating MARC fields from scratch, coursework could include exercises in evaluating copy, search strategies for early materials in OCLC (such as accounting for I/J U/V), identifying duplicate records, differentiating variants, deciding when to input a new record (which depending on the institution may just mean routing to someone else for original cataloging), enhancing copy with variant titles, signature statements, citations, local notes, genre/form headings, etc. <div><br></div><div>Matt</div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="h5"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Ann K.D. Myers <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:akdmyers@stanford.edu" target="_blank">akdmyers@stanford.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
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<p>In my experience as a supervisor and trainer, while it can be a big leap from "passive" cataloging to creating a record from scratch, I have never found it to be insurmountable.
<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>For experienced copy-catalogers, what about having them submit examples of records they have enhanced? Showing the before-and-after of going from a very basic/minimal-level record to a more fleshed out record with notes, etc. You could ask them to explain
their choices, and I think it would give you a sense of their instincts and knowledge base.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>--Ann</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div id="m_7061968149495711619m_2383147047076436985Signature">
<div id="m_7061968149495711619m_2383147047076436985divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,"EmojiFont","Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols">
<p>Ann K.D. Myers</p>
<p>Rare Books Cataloger</p>
<p>Stanford University Libraries</p>
<p>Dept. of Special Collections and University Archives</p>
<p>500 Broadway<br>
</p>
<p>Redwood City, CA 94063</p>
<p><a href="tel:(650)%20723-0123" value="+16507230123" target="_blank">650-723-0123</a></p>
<p><a href="mailto:akdmyers@stanford.edu" target="_blank">akdmyers@stanford.edu</a><br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="m_7061968149495711619m_2383147047076436985divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><span><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a> <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>> on behalf of Deborah J. Leslie <DJLeslie@FOLGER.edu><br>
</span><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 9, 2017 8:18 AM<span><br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Amanda Nelsen <<a href="mailto:an2b@eservices.virginia.edu" target="_blank">an2b@eservices.virginia.edu</a>><br>
</span><div><div class="m_7061968149495711619h5"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] Advice requested for Rare Book Cataloging preparation</div></div></font>
<div> </div>
</div><div><div class="m_7061968149495711619h5">
<div>
<div>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#993366">Thanks all for the good ideas so far. Keep them coming.
</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#993366"> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#993366">One of the nuts I'm trying to crack is that of the experienced copy cataloger. My experience as a teacher has shown that it's usually too big of a leap from (what I'll call for lack
of a better word) "passive" competence in cataloging to comfort in creating a record from scratch.
</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#993366"> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#993366">Of course, opportunities for totally original cataloging nowadays are pretty slim, even for original catalogers. What I guess I'm looking for is evidence of the ability to create solid
descriptions based on knowledgeable application of a cataloging code. Perhaps I can re-word requirements for cataloging samples to make that clearer, so that applicants without job-related cataloging to offer can do what they need to do to prepare, and aren't
necessarily at a disadvantage during the application process. </span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#993366"> </span></p>
<div>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#31849b">Deborah J. Leslie, MA, MLS | Senior Cataloger, Folger Shakespeare Library | <a href="mailto:djleslie@folger.edu" target="_blank">djleslie@folger.edu</a> | 201 East Capitol Street, S.E. | Washington, DC 20003 | <a href="tel:(202)%20675-0369" value="+12026750369" target="_blank">202.675-0369</a> | <a href="http://orcid.org" target="_blank">orcid.org</a> 0000-0001-5848-5467</span></p>
</div>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#993366"> </span></p>
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<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu<wbr>.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Stewart, Duncan R<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 09 May, 2017 10:41<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] Advice requested for Rare Book Cataloging preparation</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
</p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="color:#1f497d">Along those lines, you might ask student to try and arrange a short job shadow/internship/mentorship with a working cataloger. One of my students who attended your class recently, came into cataloging through the extracurricular
mentorship that our library offers to SLIS students. Librarians volunteer to mentor students, who come in on their own time and without credit or payment, to give them a hands on look at academic librarianship. My student did a semester long mentorship, then
a semester long practicum/individual study in special collections cataloging with me, then was hired as a student cataloger to create original RDA records for a collection of 18<sup>th</sup> century French pamphlets. She was hired as metadata/rare materials
cataloger by our unit when she graduated from library school. I know that this is a special case, but I think that a motivated student or a working cataloger with interest could arrange some basic cataloging practice.
</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="color:#1f497d">Maybe even more of a stretch—email library schools, or find another way, to find students interested in cataloging and match them with volunteer librarians to work together online. My experience with the students who have done mentorships
or worked with me in special collections is that they would all be able to take advantage of your class based on what they have picked up here.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="color:#1f497d">There are several good books that serve as a crash intro to RDA cataloging. Cataloguing and Classification / by Fotis Lazarinis, Practical cataloging / Anne Welsh and Sue Batley, and Crash course in basic cataloging with RDA / Heather
Lea Moulaison and Raegan Wiechert all give an introduction both to theory (FRBR, RDA) and practical cataloging instruction. I used the Moulaison book last year in my beginning cataloging class at UIowa SLIS, but switched to the more complete Introduction to
cataloging and classification, 11<sup>th</sup> edition because it was more useful in a semester long class.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#666666">“Dico Tibi Verum, Libertas Optima Rerum: Nunquam Servili Sub Nexu Vivito, Fili [My Son, Freedom is best, I tell thee true, of all things to be won. Then never live within the
Bond of Slavery]”</span></i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#666666"><br>
-William Wallace</span><span style="color:#1f497d"></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
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<span style="color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">
dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a> [<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu<wbr>.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Deborah J. Leslie<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 08, 2017 9:13 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'DCRM Users' Group' <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Amanda Nelsen <<a href="mailto:an2b@eservices.virginia.edu" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">an2b@eservices.virginia.edu</a>> <<a href="mailto:an2b@eservices.virginia.edu" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">an2b@eservices.virginia.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [DCRM-L] Advice requested for Rare Book Cataloging preparation</p>
</div>
</div>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
</p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Dear colleagues,</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif""> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">I’d like to brainstorm ideas for preparing potential students to take my
<a href="http://rarebookschool.org/courses/library/l30/" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">
Rare Book School class</a> who don’t have original cataloging experience. I’ve always considered it essential that students walk into the class with enough active mastery of general cataloging rules that they can competently populate a blank MARC workform,
and that experience doing original cataloging is what provides necessary active competence.
</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif""> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">What can I tell people whose jobs involve cataloging rare books, whose institutions are willing to invest in their training, but are not in a position to give them background experience with original cataloging? What
about people whose ambition is to be a rare book cataloger, but again, are not in a position to develop experience in original cataloging of general materials? It seems neither fair nor ultimately beneficial to shut these people out.
</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif""> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">When pressed in the past, I’ve recommended that individuals sit down with the rules and practice original cataloging of older books (published before 1970 or so) at hand, advising against looking them up in OCLC or
the LC catalog; older books don’t have CIP and are unlikely to have AACR2 or RDA cataloging. </span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif""> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Are there more effective ways to get adequate practice in original cataloging? Better ways to gain the necessary competence so they can hit the ground running on Day 1 of class?
</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif""> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">All thoughts and suggestions welcome, even half-baked ones. </span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif""> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#31849b">Deborah J. Leslie, MA, MLS | Senior Cataloger, Folger Shakespeare Library |
<a href="mailto:djleslie@folger.edu" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">
<span style="color:#31849b">djleslie@folger.edu</span></a> | 201 East Capitol Street, S.E. | Washington, DC 20003 | <a href="tel:(202)%20675-0369" value="+12026750369" target="_blank">202.675-0369</a> | <a href="http://orcid.org" target="_blank">orcid.org</a> 0000-0001-5848-5467</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif""> </span></p>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div></div></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">-- <br><div class="m_7061968149495711619gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><pre cols="72">-- <br>Matthew C. Haugen<br>Rare Book Cataloger<br>102 Butler Library<br>Columbia University Libraries<br>E-mail: <a href="mailto:matthew.haugen@columbia.edu" target="_blank">matthew.haugen@columbia.edu</a><br>Phone: <a href="tel:(212)%20851-2451" value="+12128512451" target="_blank">212-851-2451</a></pre>
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