<div dir="ltr"><div>
<p class="MsoNormal">
</p>Hi Maria and Francis,<br><br>MARC relators and RDA relationship designators were reconciled in 2013 and details are given in this announcement from May 31, 2013: <a href="http://www.loc.gov/marc/annmarcrdarelators.html" target="_blank">http://www.loc.gov/marc/annmar<wbr>crdarelators.html</a><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><ul><li>Roles that essentially mean the same thing but use different terms have been
brought together, either using the MARC term or the RDA term. Many role terms
were the same, but when they differed the RDA term was preferred in many cases.
In the cases where the terms were different there are references in the form of
alternate labels from the unused form and they are designated in terms of their
source, MARC or RDA.</li><li>Where the RDA term was used instead of the MARC term, the code was retained
unchanged even if it is no longer mnemonic.</li></ul></blockquote><div><br></div><div>The PCC Standing Committee on Training (SCT) Training Manual for Applying Relationship Designators in Bibliographic Records (2015) guideline 2 indicates: <br><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">It is recommended that PCC catalogers use relationship designators from the RDA appendices. If the term needed is not there, use the PCC relationship designator proposal form to propose a new term or request a revision of an existing term.<br>If a PCC cataloger wishes to use a term from a different registered vocabulary (e.g., MARC relator terms, RBMS relationship designators, etc.), he/she may do so.<br></blockquote><div><br></div>RBMS and other specialized lists aren't obligated to reconcile their terms with RDA. But there's
no current means in MARC for indicating the source of the relationship
designator, so this could result in some confusion and mess if/when these relationships are converted into linked data triples in the future.<br><br>I believe RSC's moratorium on new relationship designator proposals is still in place, and I think the RBMS Controlled Vocabularies Editorial Group has proposed a moratorium on new terms, too, so any new terms and/or reconciliation of existing terms might have to wait.<br><br></div><div>For Francis's letters, until such time as "sender" is established in one of the sources, maybe
the more general "correspondent" from RBMS might be applicable to senders or other parties in a correspondence?<br><br>As for whether the author is the secretary or the person/family/corporate body
on whose behalf the secretary writes, is it helpful to draw a distinction (or maybe a spectrum) between 1) the secretary-as-author responsible for the content written on behalf of another party who originated/caused the letter to be issued (as in your example), and 2) a secretary-as-producer of the manifestation who acts solely as a typist, copyist, transcriber, etc. of correspondence whose content was authored by another agent?<br><br>I assume the secretary is more likely to be named in the first case. For the latter case, RDA has no designators for producers of manifestations. The MARC or RBMS relationship designator "Scribe" seems to be the closest match, if somewhat
anachronistic, for a secretary who takes dictation, or serves as a
copyist, typist, etc. on behalf of someone else: "Use for the amanuensis
and for the writer of manuscripts
proper."</div><div><br></div><div>1)<br>Secretary, $e author.<br>Hambledon, Lord, $e issuing body [correspondent, contributor, etc.?]<br><br>2)<br><div>Hambleden, Lord, $e author.<br></div>Secretary, $e scribe [producer, contributor?]<br><br><br>Or some such letters might be a case of administrative, etc. correspondence that would be considered to have a corporate creator, with a secretary as a contributor to the content and/or producer of the manifestation. Maybe there is even some case to be made for treating <span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">"Hambleden" and other landed nobility as a sort of jurisdictional or governmental corporate body inclusive of the incumbent Lord Hambleden and his secretaries, employees, etc. who collectively administer and issue letters on behalf of that title, somewhat similar to the case for official communiques of heads of state, popes, etc.</span></div><div><font face="Helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font>In many cases, I imagine the person or body on whose behalf the letter is being
written might have a subject relationship to the letter as well.<br><br></div><div>Matt<br></div></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Maria Oldal <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:oldalm@themorgan.org" target="_blank">oldalm@themorgan.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Erin,<div><br></div><div>While I would be delighted to see "sender" added to the list of relationship designators, I am concerned about the conflict "recipient" has with the MARC term list.</div><div><br></div><div><dt style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12px"><span class="m_7203026093824289102gmail-authorized" style="font-weight:bold">Addressee</span><span class="m_7203026093824289102gmail-relator-code" style="font-weight:bold"> [rcp]</span></dt><dd class="m_7203026093824289102gmail-use-note" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12px">A person, family, or organization to whom the correspondence in a work is addressed<div class="m_7203026093824289102gmail-use-for-term"><span class="m_7203026093824289102gmail-use-for-label" style="font-size:9.6px;padding-left:2em">UF</span> <span class="m_7203026093824289102gmail-use-for-ref" style="padding-left:2em">Recipient</span></div></dd></div><div><br></div><div>Do you, or anyone else on the list, know the background of the change? The code remained "rcp." I wonder what exactly necessitated this. Will the RBMS relator term change as well?</div><div><br></div><div>Maria</div><div><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="m_7203026093824289102gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">--</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Maria Oldal</span><br></div><div>Manager of Collections Information and Library Systems</div><div>The Morgan Library & Museum</div><div><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=225+Madison+AvenueNew+York,+NY+10016&entry=gmail&source=g">225 Madison Avenue</a></div><div><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=225+Madison+AvenueNew+York,+NY+10016&entry=gmail&source=g">New York, NY 10016</a></div><div>Tel: <a href="tel:(212)%20590-0382" value="+12125900382" target="_blank">212-590-0382</a></div><div>Email: <a href="mailto:oldalm@themorgan.org" target="_blank">oldalm@themorgan.org</a></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div class="h5">
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Erin Blake <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:EBlake@folger.edu" target="_blank">EBlake@folger.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72">
<div class="m_7203026093824289102m_-723899895687610714WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">This is an example of how "sender" can be a useful relationship designator. See <a href="http://rbms.info/cv-comments/2017/08/07/term-sender/" target="_blank">http://rbms.info/cv-comments/2<wbr>017/08/07/term-sender/</a> for the current discussion.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Proposed term and scope note:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#666666;background:white">Sender<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#666666;background:white">Scope note:</span></i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#666666;background:white">
Use for the entity from whom correspondence is sent.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#666666"><br>
<span style="background:white"><br>
<i>Broader Term:</i> correspondent</span><br>
<i><span style="background:white">Related Term:</span></i><span style="background:white"> recipient<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">EB.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d">________<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d"><br>
Erin C. Blake, Ph.D. | Head of Collection Information Services | Folger Shakespeare Library | <a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=201+E.+Capitol+St.+SE,+Washington,+DC,+20003&entry=gmail&source=g" target="_blank">201 E. Capitol St. SE, Washington, DC, 20003</a> | <a href="mailto:eblake@folger.edu" target="_blank"><span style="color:blue">eblake@folger.edu</span></a> |
office tel. <a href="tel:(202)%20608-1717" value="+12026081717" target="_blank">+1 202-608-1717</a> </span><span style="color:#1f497d"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> DCRM-L [mailto:<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu<wbr>.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Lapka, Francis<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 26, 2017 1:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [DCRM-L] letter authorship<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">For manuscript catalogers:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">When describing a letter composed by one person (frequently a secretary) on behalf of another, what is best practice for choosing the author? Here’s a shorter example (1937):
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Dear Madam, In reply to your letter Lord Hambleden says he is glad to give a prize and has asked me to send you the enclosed five guineas. He is greatly looking
forward to seeing the exhibition. Yours faithfully, [secretary’s name]<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">In this example, would you treat Hambleden as author? If not, as contributor? If treating him as contributor, is there a relationship designator that would be appropriate? I have a handful of
such letters – of varying origination – at my desk now, so advice would be most welcome.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Francis<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI Semilight"">Francis Lapka · Catalog Librarian<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI Semilight"">Dept. of Rare Books and Manuscripts<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI Semilight"">Yale Center for British Art<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI Semilight""><a href="tel:(203)%20432-9672" value="+12034329672" target="_blank">203.432.9672</a> ·
<a href="mailto:francis.lapka@yale.edu" target="_blank"><span style="color:blue">francis.lapka@yale.edu</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><pre cols="72">-- <br>Matthew C. Haugen<br>Rare Book Cataloger<br>102 Butler Library<br>Columbia University Libraries<br>E-mail: <a href="mailto:matthew.haugen@columbia.edu" target="_blank">matthew.haugen@columbia.edu</a><br>Phone: 212-851-2451</pre>
</div></div>
</div>