<div dir="ltr"><div>It would seem that approximation of less common letters using available letterforms (v+v or r+v as w, l+r as k etc.) is a phenomenon particular to letterpress, and I think it makes sense to no longer treat v + v as an exception to transcribing the intended letter.<br><br>Here is one example of "V V" in manuscript that's intended as a W, specifically in imitation of the same in print. It is a manuscript replacement title page for the VVhole Booke of Psalmes (1640 Bay Psalm Book, in the Library of Congress collection): <a href="https://www.loc.gov/resource/rbc0001.2008amimp02405/?sp=4T">https://www.loc.gov/resource/rbc0001.2008amimp02405/?sp=4T</a><br></div><div><br>I suppose it is possible that an engraver,
woodcutter, lithographer, etc. would similarly imitate letterpress conventions for stylistic reasons, much like both letterpress and engravings have imitated manuscript conventions, and probably this might show up in facsimiles of letterpress produced by other methods, but I'm not able to find any examples readily.<br><br>My hunch would be for the PS to have the same transcription outcome (i.e. the intended letter) regardless of format and whether it's letterpress or in imitation thereof, though this seems mostly hypothetical given the lack of examples, and I don't really work with graphics, so I don't have strong opinions.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Matt<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 11:29 AM, Lapka, Francis <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:francis.lapka@yale.edu" target="_blank">francis.lapka@yale.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div class="m_-3900084791466053807WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1f497d">Can anyone think of a non-letterpress example where we’d apply the guideline on approximated characters? If not, I see the sense in revising “characters” to “letters [or characters
/ pieces] of type.” <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1f497d">I think we’d want to apply the same guidance to all formats.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1f497d">Francis<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> DCRM-L [mailto:<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.<wbr>byu.edu</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Mascaro, Michelle<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 18, 2017 11:50 AM<span class=""><br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>
</span><b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] Transcription of "VV" in engraved text: DCRM(B/G) and RBMS PS<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Thanks for your comment and question, Erin. For the case you describe, where the artist or printmaker deliberately drew or engraved two v’s, I think you could make the case that vv, versus w, are the artist’s
intended characters and transcribed them as is. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">I would be open to adopting G’s wording and change “character” to “letters of type,” to add a level of clarity for this situation. The followup question I have: should making this distinction between letterpress
and non-letterpress vv be a still image only exception, or apply to all formats? (I.e., Is there a reason we would want a different transcription outcome for engraved title pages within a book, versus art prints?)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Michelle<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> DCRM-L [<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.<wbr>byu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Erin Blake<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 15, 2017 1:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [DCRM-L] Transcription of "VV" in engraved text: DCRM(B/G) and RBMS PS<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Does it matter if the "VV" you're transcribing is letterpress or not? DCRM(B) makes no distinction, but DCRM(G) specifies that this applies when pieces of type are used to approximate other letters.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Under DCRM, it doesn't make a difference: if an artist or printmaker deliberately drew or engraved two v's to make a visual joke about a w (for example), it would be transcribed as two v's because you transcribe what you see. But the RBMS
PS Draft says the drawn or engraved vv would have to be transcribed as w.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0in">DCRM(B) 0G7.2 says: Transcribe two
<span style="background:yellow">letters</span> used to approximate a third letter as the intended letter. However, transcribe <b>vv</b> as <b>vv</b><u></u><u></u></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0in">DCRM(G) 0G7.3 says: Transcribe two
<span style="background:yellow">letters of type</span> used to approximate a third letter as the intended letter. However, transcribe
<span style="background:yellow">letterpress</span> <b>vv</b> as <b>vv</b><u></u><u></u></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0in">RBMS PS Draft 2017-12-13 says: Transcribe
<span style="background:yellow">characters</span> used to approximate a different character (e.g., when
<b>VV</b> and <b>vv</b> <span style="background:yellow">letterforms</span> have been used to represent the single letter
<b>W</b> or <b>w</b>) as the intended character<u></u><u></u></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I can't think of an example where an engraved VV is means as a "W" (just examples where engraved majuscule VV would be converted to miniscule vu, as in this title page (book only has an engraved title page):
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__librarymedia.nga.gov_library_1024_352231_352231-5F002-5Fcor.jpg&d=DwMFAg&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=jrWJXl6NwKnAswBXMUyz4gwgwml2Fnao_95lEQ2zkjY&m=64INgyb9PFLYF0yiX2ijAcJWAeaMLuBXmJCGc2kFdgk&s=QTlKtbiBdwafX0my1UOGvgLu4IFT3n8T5YbSSQEeQVI&e=" target="_blank">
http://librarymedia.nga.gov/<wbr>library/1024/352231/352231_<wbr>002_cor.jpg</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Erin.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">________<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><br>
Erin C. Blake, Ph.D. | Head of Collection Information Services | Folger Shakespeare Library | <a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=201+E.+Capitol+St.+SE,+Washington,+DC,+20003&entry=gmail&source=g">201 E. Capitol St. SE, Washington, DC, 20003</a> | <a href="mailto:eblake@folger.edu" target="_blank">eblake@folger.edu</a> | office tel. <a href="tel:(202)%20675-0323" value="+12026750323" target="_blank">+1 202-675-0323</a> </span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><pre cols="72">-- <br>Matthew C. Haugen<br>Rare Book Cataloger<br>102 Butler Library<br>Columbia University Libraries<br>E-mail: <a href="mailto:matthew.haugen@columbia.edu" target="_blank">matthew.haugen@columbia.edu</a><br>Phone: 212-851-2451</pre>
</div></div>
</div>