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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style","serif";color:#1F497D">I echo Richard’s sentiments; please let’s retain the square brackets which make statements of extent so much easier and quicker for catalog users to understand. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style","serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style","serif";color:#1F497D">Mary<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style","serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style","serif";color:#1F497D">Mary Person<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style","serif";color:#1F497D">Rare Books Cataloger/Reference Librarian<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style","serif";color:#1F497D">Historical & Special Collections<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style","serif";color:#1F497D">Harvard Law School Library<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style","serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style","serif";color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:person@law.harvard.edu">person@law.harvard.edu</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style","serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> DCRM-L [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Noble, Richard<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 04, 2018 10:10 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] RBMS PS review Q4: Extent of text<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Please please please retain the square bracket convention in extent statements. The compression that results enables one to focus on the information the statement is meant to convey, without having
to pick out the flowers from weedy 16-character growths of "unnumbered pages".<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">RICHARD NOBLE :: RARE MATERIALS CATALOGUER :: JOHN HAY LIBRARY</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">BROWN UNIVERSITY :: PROVIDENCE, R.I. 02912 :: 401-863-1187</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New""><</span><a href="mailto:RICHARD_NOBLE@BROWN.EDU" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">Richard_Noble@Br</span></a><span style="font-family:"Courier New""><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__own.edu&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=EkkQFOGUCtF2osSJj7hvtyM31K6sxQSo34Z9RQpCmDw&m=35SOma-l3cZOCSbxzju-EuAa-zWfAVOWF8EEtj96m5k&s=lWM6DX5g_StiIkiGCL08Sb7pe9VxYPfZUNYZi-Pjddg&e=" target="_blank">own.edu</a>></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 8:55 AM, Karen Attar <<a href="mailto:Karen.Attar@london.ac.uk" target="_blank">Karen.Attar@london.ac.uk</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">I agree entirely with this view.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">We have been thinking a bit about ease for users. Users must learn to understand square brackets (if they don’t already) because at the same
time that they are looking at books catalogued by new rules, they will be looking at books catalogued by old rules in hybrid catalogues and also at printed bibliographies which employ the convention of square brackets.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Karen</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Dr Karen Attar</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Curator of Rare Books and University Art</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Senate House Library, University of London</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Senate House</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Malet St</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">London</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">WC1E 7HU</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Tel. 020 7862 8472</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__research.sas.ac.uk_search_fellow_516_dr-2Dkaren-2Dattar_&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=EkkQFOGUCtF2osSJj7hvtyM31K6sxQSo34Z9RQpCmDw&m=35SOma-l3cZOCSbxzju-EuAa-zWfAVOWF8EEtj96m5k&s=l78Fyx7S0p5HVLikLvAN9teWvw7C8qkrtQ1iilCT2Q4&e=" target="_blank">http://research.sas.ac.uk/search/fellow/516/dr-karen-attar/</a></span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black">The University of London is an exempt charity in England and Wales. We are committed to achieving a 20% cut in emissions
from University buildings by 2015. Please think before you print</span></i><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b> DCRM-L [mailto:<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Bychowski, Brenna<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 04 April 2018 13:47<span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] RBMS PS review Q4: Extent of text<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Setting aside the question of [i.e.] and [sic] for the moment, and returning to the original conversation about using square brackets, I just want to put in my vote for retaining
the brackets. If we take a relatively straightforward statement of extent, such as:<span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">vi, [3], 10-311, [1] pages<span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">and replace the brackets with “unnumbered pages,” we end up with the more unwieldly:<span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">vi pages, 3 unnumbered pages, 10-311 pages, 1 unnumbered page<span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">As statements of extent for rare materials can (and do) get significantly more complicated than that, I think we would quickly enter into a realm where using “unnumbered pages”
instead of square brackets would lead to more confusion and obfuscation than clarity. Given the nature of our work, it seems to me that the concision and economy of display that square brackets give us is useful to keep.<span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Brenna<span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">--<span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Brenna Bychowski<span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Catalog/Metadata Librarian<span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Beinecke Rare Book & Manuscript Library<span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Yale University<span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">203.432.4850<span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="mailto:brenna.bychowski@yale.edu" target="_blank">brenna.bychowski@yale.edu</a><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b> DCRM-L [<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>William Hale<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 4, 2018 5:35 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] RBMS PS review Q4: Extent of text<span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D">I don’t think I have ever used [sic] in an extent statement, though I do employ it occasionally in transcribed fields. I use [i.e.] fairly
often when printed pagination is incorrect, as it often is in early materials. Not to use it or an equivalent in such cases means that the extent statement will not represent the actual extent of the item, which is highly misleading. You can of course put
the actual extent in a note, but where does that leave the “granularity of RDA”? And it is making key information about the item less easy to find, which is the last thing we should be doing.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">--</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">William Hale.<br>
<br>
</span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lib.cam.ac.uk_deptserv_rarebooks_index.html&d=DwMFAg&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=ic4fFhrKj_tnOO1LhvD85wkHXq5V8Ndks3a0JI9pZlc&m=3PdripfKq3B6nwBxYQXt39XD4uOX3qETYFUuBh9xfoU&s=MZ4c5xb5Z8y4YFDui2pV9noyo44R0Ry9i-kFtnQb41E&e=" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;text-decoration:none">Rare
Books and Early Manuscripts Department,<br>
Cambridge University Library,<br>
West Road, Cambridge, CB3 9DR.</span></a><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
<br>
Telephone: </span><a href="tel:+44%201223%20333122" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;text-decoration:none">(+44) (0)1223 333122</span></a><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
Email: </span><a href="mailto:William.Hale@lib.cam.ac.uk" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;text-decoration:none">William.Hale@lib.cam.ac.uk</span></a><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b> DCRM-L [<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Maxwell<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 04 April 2018 00:25<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] RBMS PS review Q4: Extent of text<span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Actually, I think the RDA solution is not to use “sic” at all or any equivalent, just to copy exactly what is there with no “on the spot” explanation
and then explaining later in a note, if thought necessary. I’m not sure now often “sic” would be used in an extent statement—maybe if the numeral being recorded is known to be incorrect?—but I think RDA’s solution would be to record what’s there and explain
in a note if necessary. Which seems like a pretty “rare materials cataloging” way of doing things, to represent the item exactly as it represents itself.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Bob
</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D">Robert L. Maxwell<br>
Ancient Languages and Special Collections Librarian<br>
6728 Harold B. Lee Library<br>
Brigham Young University<br>
Provo, UT 84602<br>
(801)422-5568</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b> DCRM-L <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Margaret F. Nichols<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 3, 2018 3:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] RBMS PS review Q4: Extent of text<span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">I’m a bit skeptical of the idea that an abbreviation of a Latin phrase is going to be easier for non-English users to understand than an English phrase
is, given that the lingua franca these days tends to be English rather than Latin. I do agree, though, that it’s hard to come up with a concise English equivalent for “sic.”</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Two cents,</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Margaret</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">_______________________________</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Margaret F. Nichols</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Rare Materials Cataloging Coordinator</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Division of Rare and Manuscript Collections</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">2B Kroch Library</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Cornell University
</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Ithaca, NY 14853-5302</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Tel. (607) 255-9667
</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b> DCRM-L <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Lapka, Francis<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 03, 2018 12:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] RBMS PS review Q4: Extent of text<span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D">I’m pleased to see all the useful input.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D">On the matter of “i.e.” and “sic”: Would it be fair to say that the users for a given record describing a rare item are
likely to be more linguistically diverse, compared to the audiences for other resources described with RDA? If so, is that a sufficient rare materials reason for deviation – assuming “i.e.” is easier to understand than “that is” for the non-English audience
? The same linguistic neutrality might be evoked to justify the use of square brackets instead of “unnumbered.” If the premise is malarkey, the case for “i.e.” in this context is wobbly.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D">Francis</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b> DCRM-L [<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kathie Coblentz<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 03, 2018 12:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] RBMS PS review Q4: Extent of text<span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I completely agree with Bob Maxwell on "i.e.," and I have no problems using "that is" instead. (It never ceases to surprise me how many educated people use "i.e." when they mean
"e.g.," and vice versa. Or "the other way around," I suppose I should say.)<span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">However, "sic" is awfully hard to replace with an English word or concise phrase. Of course RDA gospel calls for omitting it altogether in transcribing "an element as it appears
on the source," and I can go along with that, as long as there is a note (and/or other title entry) "correcting the inaccuracy," though in the case of rare materials, I would not limit that to "if considered important for identification or access." <span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">But in quoted material from other sources, there is no other good way to call attention to typos, factual errors or other unexpected variations in the data. <span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">This doesn't really apply to the discussion of Extent of text, since I can't imagine using "sic" there for any reason, but it might be worth reflecting on for the rest of the catalog
record.<span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Oh, and for what it's worth: for rare materials, I'm completely on board with using the square brackets convention instead of "unnumbered," for the sake of everyone's sanity. I
wish RDA would drop "unnumbered" altogether. Anyone who cares about the distinction between pages with page numbers on them and pages with no page numbers on them, understands the bracketing convention. As for the rest, how many noncatalogers even know what
"unnumbered pages" means?<span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif"">Kathie Coblentz |
<span style="color:#CC0000">The New York Public Library</span></span></b><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif"">Rare Materials Cataloger</span></i><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif"">Special Collections/Special Formats Processing</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif"">Stephen A. Schwarzman Building<br>
</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif""><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__maps.google.com_-3Fq-3D476-2B5th-2BAvenue-2C-2BRoom-2B313-2C-2BNew-2BYork-2C-2BNY-2B10018-26entry-3Dgmail-26source-3Dg&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=EkkQFOGUCtF2osSJj7hvtyM31K6sxQSo34Z9RQpCmDw&m=35SOma-l3cZOCSbxzju-EuAa-zWfAVOWF8EEtj96m5k&s=oqLwsQ7FkZuwdK3Ct3Ki8jRnpXcPCtBkp_jxyCkp2gY&e=">476
5th Avenue, Room 313, New York, NY 10018</a></span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="mailto:kathiecoblentz@nypl.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1155CC">kathiecoblentz@nypl.org</span></a><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">My opinions, not NYPL's<span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: Robert Maxwell <<a href="mailto:robert_maxwell@byu.edu" target="_blank">robert_maxwell@byu.edu</a>><br>
To: "DCRM Users' Group" <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>
Cc: <br>
Bcc: <br>
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2018 16:05:50 +0000<br>
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] RBMS PS review Q4: Extent of text<span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">I can just about accept the argument that there is a rare reason for departing from RDA extent instructions in the matter of bracketing vs. “unnumbered”—rare
book extent statements are much more likely than other types of extent statements to need to record unnumbered sequences.
</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">However, I do not accept the argument that rare extent statements should continue to use “i.e.” and “sic” when the rest of RDA practice does not. In
the first place, if 0.4.3.7 justified this it would have justified it for RDA as a whole—the rare materials community is not the only one that “commonly used” these forms,
<i>all</i> communities commonly used these forms before RDA came along and this was not thought to be a good reason to refuse to go along with the new instruction. So that argument simply won’t wash, for me at least. There is no compelling rare materials reason
in those cases why the rare rules should depart from the general RDA rules.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Bob</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D">Robert L. Maxwell<br>
Ancient Languages and Special Collections Librarian<br>
6728 Harold B. Lee Library<br>
Brigham Young University<br>
Provo, UT 84602<br>
</span><a href="tel:(801)%20422-5568" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">(801)422-5568</span></a><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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