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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hear, hear!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="http://research.sas.ac.uk/search/fellow/516/dr-karen-attar/">http://research.sas.ac.uk/search/fellow/516/dr-karen-attar/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">The University of London is an exempt charity in England and Wales. We are committed to achieving a 20% cut in emissions from University buildings by 2015. Please
think before you print</span></i><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> DCRM-L [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>O'Brien, Iris<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 05 April 2018 10:14<br>
<b>To:</b> 'DCRM Users' Group' <dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] RBMS PS review Q4: Extent of text<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I agree with Valerie about sic and the same can be said about “i.e.”. It has entered English language usage (and German for that matter)
and most people will know the meaning of it and how it is used without knowing any Latin or realising that it is the Latin abbreviation for “id est”. It is much more precise and less confusing than “that is” as the simple translation from Latin doesn’t quite
cover all the nuances of its meaning (“that is to say” would be a much better translation but nobody is suggesting using that). Like Mary, I use i.e. a lot in everyday conversation.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">(Some style guides, for instance the Oxford University style guide, don’t treat it as a proper abbreviation as they suggest omitting the
full stops and just using “ie” but this might be a British thing).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">------------------------------------------------------</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Iris O'Brien
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Early Printed Collections Cataloguing and Processing Manager<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">The British Library<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">St Pancras<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">96 Euston Road<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">London<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">NW1 2DB<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Tel.: +44 (0)20 7412 7731
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">E-mail: iris.o'brien@bl.uk</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> DCRM-L <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Valerie Buck<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 04 April 2018 17:11<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] RBMS PS review Q4: Extent of text<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I just want to quickly point out, as someone who appreciates seeing [sic] (& knowing what it means) not only in bib records but also in numerous
other places in my personal research, that “sic” can be found in most if not all English dictionaries. It has definitely entered English language usage, even though it originated as Latin. Perhaps someone has already pointed this out, and if so, I want to
reiterate that the argument to stop using [sic] because it is Latin is shaky.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Nauvoo;color:#1F497D">Valerie M. Buck<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Nauvoo;color:#1F497D">Rare Literature Cataloger<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Nauvoo;color:#1F497D">Harold B. Lee Library<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Nauvoo;color:#1F497D">Brigham Young University<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Nauvoo;color:#1F497D">6742 HBLL<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Nauvoo;color:#1F497D">Provo, Utah 84602<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Nauvoo;color:#1F497D">801-422-4477<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Nauvoo;color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:valerie_buck@byu.edu">valerie_buck@byu.edu</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> DCRM-L [<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu">mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kalan Davis<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 04, 2018 8:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] RBMS PS review Q4: Extent of text<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:11.75pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#222222">To return to the matter of abbreviations, perhaps online translation tools have supplanted the purposes
of international languages, such as Latin, in our day-to-day. An international scholar looking for a resource in my institution's discovery tool clicks the “translate page?” button in their web browser. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:11.75pt;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#222222">Take the following extent statement an English language of cataloging (040 $b) <span class="gmail-gr">dcrmb</span> record:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:11.75pt;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#222222">[14], 240 (i.e. 220), 64, [28] p. ; ǂc 21 cm. (4to)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:11.75pt;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#222222">the web browser translates:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:11.75pt;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#222222">[14], 240 (<span class="gmail-gr">tj</span>. 220), 64, [28] str. ; 21 cm. (4to)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:11.75pt;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#222222">I gather that “<span class="gmail-gr">tj</span>” is a lexical equivalent to “i.e.” and that the online translation tool knows this. Replace the “i.e.” with the phrase
“that is” and the results are the same (curiously, it reverts the phrase “that is” back to the abbreviation “<span class="gmail-gr">tj</span>”). For these online translation tools to work in the best capacity, consistency is key which leaves me to think that
a departure from the general RDA rules might be detrimental in the long term. However, one might make the case that a reliance on online translation tools might be detrimental in the long term as well. ;) It is interesting to note that the same online translation
tool doesn’t know how to make heads or tails of the abbreviation “sic”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:11.75pt;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#222222">As much as I like the use of brackets for unnumbered pages (and personally, dislike having to type those words so often in RDA). I wonder how screen readers react to
the brackets. I’m not an expert by any means in web accessibility, this is more of a personal curiosity than anything and I do prefer the brackets.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:11.75pt;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#222222">kalan <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:11.75pt;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word-spacing:0px">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#222222">p.s. After many years a list-lurker, this is my first post to DCRM-list. My hope <span class="gmail-gr">it</span> was well conveyed and constructed. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Person, Mary <<a href="mailto:person@law.harvard.edu" target="_blank">person@law.harvard.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif;color:#1F4E79">I agree with Richard on this. When looking at a catalog record and encountering something
that could either be a catalogers’ typo OR a faithful transcription of a title page (or whatever) that question (“Really?”) does come immediately to mind and it’s so helpful to have [sic] right there and not buried in a note, which may not even be noticed.
</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif;color:#1F4E79"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif;color:#1F4E79">As for “i.e.” I’m one who uses it in every day conversation so am probably hopelessly
mired there. </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif;color:#1F4E79"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif;color:#1F4E79">Mary</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif;color:#1F4E79"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif;color:#1F4E79">Mary Person</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif;color:#1F4E79">Rare Books Cataloger/Reference Librarian</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif;color:#1F4E79">Historical & Special Collections</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif;color:#1F4E79">Harvard Law School Library</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif;color:#1F4E79"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif;color:#1F4E79"><a href="mailto:person@law.harvard.edu" target="_blank"><span style="color:#00007F">person@law.harvard.edu</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif;color:#1F4E79"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> DCRM-L
[mailto:<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Noble, Richard<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 04, 2018 8:53 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] RBMS PS review Q4: Extent of text<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">I quite agree with William Hale on this one. Interpolated "[sic]" is an immediate answer to the question "Really? Is this not a
transcription error?"--a question that is either left unanswered, raising real questions about discrepancies among copies, or answered only in a note that must be found by inspection of the record. It is equivalent to "[thus]", but that is not an established
convention, and thus not as immediately informative. There's also "[!]"--but that seems unduly judgemental.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">I suppose "i.e." is a lost cause, despite the fact that just about everyone likely to be interested in a rare book record will be
accustomed to it; I still feel a twinge of reader's whiplash in response to "[that is ...]", as if the statement were being read aloud to me: it gets in the way of comprehending the statement as a whole. (Then again, I'm a cataloger, so I talk to myself constantly...).</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">And yes, the extent statement
<i>must</i> admit editorial intervention to convey correct information, which can always be supported by an explanatory note, or even a formal collational formula/pagination statement that exhibits some analytical understanding of the physical book.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"><br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Courier New"">RICHARD NOBLE :: RARE MATERIALS CATALOGUER :: JOHN HAY LIBRARY</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Courier New"">BROWN UNIVERSITY :: PROVIDENCE, R.I. 02912 :: 401-863-1187</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Courier New""><</span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:RICHARD_NOBLE@BROWN.EDU" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">Richard_Noble@Br</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Courier New""><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__own.edu&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=EkkQFOGUCtF2osSJj7hvtyM31K6sxQSo34Z9RQpCmDw&m=lkD4cSrM8biUZ_9N6CcLjV6L6kYujytS4sRWAfyGb_8&s=DOsN_0FQHynMydZpJtWx_leN5eejojvKBbXuWMwRPd8&e=" target="_blank">own.edu</a>></span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 5:35 AM, William Hale <<a href="mailto:wah26@cam.ac.uk" target="_blank">wah26@cam.ac.uk</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">I don’t think I have ever used [sic] in an extent statement, though I do employ it occasionally in transcribed fields. I use [i.e.] fairly often when
printed pagination is incorrect, as it often is in early materials. Not to use it or an equivalent in such cases means that the extent statement will not represent the actual extent of the item, which is highly misleading. You can of course put the actual
extent in a note, but where does that leave the “granularity of RDA”? And it is making key information about the item less easy to find, which is the last thing we should be doing.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">--</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">William Hale.<br>
<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lib.cam.ac.uk_deptserv_rarebooks_index.html&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=EkkQFOGUCtF2osSJj7hvtyM31K6sxQSo34Z9RQpCmDw&m=lkD4cSrM8biUZ_9N6CcLjV6L6kYujytS4sRWAfyGb_8&s=GLfwz6epBFLkIFOlib8w_2E-IYxlXvdWcO_7IjRR9vM&e=" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1F497D;text-decoration:none">Rare
Books and Early Manuscripts Department,<br>
Cambridge University Library,<br>
West Road, Cambridge, CB3 9DR.</span></a><br>
<br>
Telephone: <a href="tel:+44%201223%20333122" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1F497D;text-decoration:none">(+44) (0)1223 333122</span></a><br>
Email: <a href="mailto:William.Hale@lib.cam.ac.uk" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1F497D;text-decoration:none">William.Hale@lib.cam.ac.uk</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> DCRM-L [mailto:<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Maxwell<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 04 April 2018 00:25<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] RBMS PS review Q4: Extent of text<span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Actually, I think the RDA solution is not to use “sic” at all or any equivalent, just to copy exactly what is there with no “on the spot”
explanation and then explaining later in a note, if thought necessary. I’m not sure now often “sic” would be used in an extent statement—maybe if the numeral being recorded is known to be incorrect?—but I think RDA’s solution would be to record what’s there
and explain in a note if necessary. Which seems like a pretty “rare materials cataloging” way of doing things, to represent the item exactly as it represents itself.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Bob
</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D">Robert L. Maxwell<br>
Ancient Languages and Special Collections Librarian<br>
6728 Harold B. Lee Library<br>
Brigham Young University<br>
Provo, UT 84602<br>
(801)422-5568</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> DCRM-L <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Margaret F. Nichols<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 3, 2018 3:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] RBMS PS review Q4: Extent of text<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">I’m a bit skeptical of the idea that an abbreviation of a Latin phrase is going to be easier for non-English users to understand than an
English phrase is, given that the lingua franca these days tends to be English rather than Latin. I do agree, though, that it’s hard to come up with a concise English equivalent for “sic.”</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Two cents,</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Margaret</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">_______________________________</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Margaret F. Nichols</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Rare Materials Cataloging Coordinator</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Division of Rare and Manuscript Collections</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">2B Kroch Library</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Cornell University
</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Ithaca, NY 14853-5302</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Tel. (607) 255-9667
</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> DCRM-L <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Lapka, Francis<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 03, 2018 12:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] RBMS PS review Q4: Extent of text<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D">I’m pleased to see all the useful input.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D">On the matter of “i.e.” and “sic”: Would it be fair to say that the users for a given record describing a rare
item are likely to be more linguistically diverse, compared to the audiences for other resources described with RDA? If so, is that a sufficient rare materials reason for deviation – assuming “i.e.” is easier to understand than “that is” for the non-English
audience ? The same linguistic neutrality might be evoked to justify the use of square brackets instead of “unnumbered.” If the premise is malarkey, the case for “i.e.” in this context is wobbly.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D">Francis</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> DCRM-L [<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kathie Coblentz<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 03, 2018 12:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] RBMS PS review Q4: Extent of text<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">I completely agree with Bob Maxwell on "i.e.," and I have no problems using "that is" instead. (It never ceases to surprise me how many educated people use "i.e."
when they mean "e.g.," and vice versa. Or "the other way around," I suppose I should say.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">However, "sic" is awfully hard to replace with an English word or concise phrase. Of course RDA gospel calls for omitting it altogether in transcribing "an element
as it appears on the source," and I can go along with that, as long as there is a note (and/or other title entry) "correcting the inaccuracy," though in the case of rare materials, I would not limit that to "if considered important for identification or access." <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">But in quoted material from other sources, there is no other good way to call attention to typos, factual errors or other unexpected variations in the data. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">This doesn't really apply to the discussion of Extent of text, since I can't imagine using "sic" there for any reason, but it might be worth reflecting on for
the rest of the catalog record.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">Oh, and for what it's worth: for rare materials, I'm completely on board with using the square brackets convention instead of "unnumbered," for the sake of everyone's
sanity. I wish RDA would drop "unnumbered" altogether. Anyone who cares about the distinction between pages with page numbers on them and pages with no page numbers on them, understands the bracketing convention. As for the rest, how many noncatalogers even
know what "unnumbered pages" means?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">--------------------------------------------------------</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">Kathie Coblentz |
<span style="color:#CC0000">The New York Public Library</span></span></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">Rare Materials Cataloger</span></i><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">Special Collections/Special Formats Processing</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">Stephen A. Schwarzman Building<br>
</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__maps.google.com_-3Fq-3D476-2B5th-2BAvenue-2C-2BRoom-2B313-2C-2BNew-2BYork-2C-2BNY-2B10018-26entry-3Dgmail-26source-3Dg&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=EkkQFOGUCtF2osSJj7hvtyM31K6sxQSo34Z9RQpCmDw&m=lkD4cSrM8biUZ_9N6CcLjV6L6kYujytS4sRWAfyGb_8&s=nOmpcwg3Heecmlja3OjPBKpSncqkX174Clge38F_5I8&e=" target="_blank">476
5th Avenue, Room 313, New York, NY 10018</a></span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:kathiecoblentz@nypl.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;color:#1155CC">kathiecoblentz@nypl.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">My opinions, not NYPL's<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: Robert Maxwell <<a href="mailto:robert_maxwell@byu.edu" target="_blank">robert_maxwell@byu.edu</a>><br>
To: "DCRM Users' Group" <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>
Cc: <br>
Bcc: <br>
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2018 16:05:50 +0000<br>
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] RBMS PS review Q4: Extent of text<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">I can just about accept the argument that there is a rare reason for departing from RDA extent instructions in the matter of bracketing
vs. “unnumbered”—rare book extent statements are much more likely than other types of extent statements to need to record unnumbered sequences.
</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">However, I do not accept the argument that rare extent statements should continue to use “i.e.” and “sic” when the rest of RDA practice
does not. In the first place, if 0.4.3.7 justified this it would have justified it for RDA as a whole—the rare materials community is not the only one that “commonly used” these forms,
<i>all</i> communities commonly used these forms before RDA came along and this was not thought to be a good reason to refuse to go along with the new instruction. So that argument simply won’t wash, for me at least. There is no compelling rare materials reason
in those cases why the rare rules should depart from the general RDA rules.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Bob</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D">Robert L. Maxwell<br>
Ancient Languages and Special Collections Librarian<br>
6728 Harold B. Lee Library<br>
Brigham Young University<br>
Provo, UT 84602<br>
<a href="tel:(801)%20422-5568" target="_blank">(801)422-5568</a></span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#888888"><br>
Kalan Knudson Davis, MLIS</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#888888">Data Management & Access (DMA)<br>
University of Minnesota Libraries </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#888888">160 Wilson Library
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.5pt;color:#888888">Minneapolis, MN 55455 </span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:kkdavis@umn.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">kkdavis@umn.edu</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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