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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Another thing about all caps. Frankly, it’s just really ugly on the computer screen but not on the printed page. That could be another factor in why we don’t
transcribe it that way. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Ted Gemberling
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Gemberling, Ted P<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 16, 2019 12:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group <dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] many, many misnumbered pages<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Joan,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I’m not as much of an expert on this as Deborah, but I think the rationale is as follows: we want users to know if the printer generally followed a pattern of
using u and v in certain positions. In our current usage we always distinguish between vowel u and consonant v, but before maybe 300 years ago printers didn’t do so. And you have to remember that in Latin, u and v were just different versions of the same
letter. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Now, as for why we don’t transcribe all caps in the titles as they are on the book, my guess is that it would be hard to expect that to be done consistently.
As I said, that’s just a guess. Deborah can correct me on it. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Ted Gemberling<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">UAB Libraries<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> DCRM-L <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joan Milligan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 16, 2019 10:43 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] many, many misnumbered pages<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:105%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Deborah,</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:105%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:105%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">First the pagination. It does not self-correct, so currently my 300 reads:</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:105%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">16 unnumbered pages, 334 [i.e. 323] pages, 29 unnumbered pages ; $b illustration ; $c 21 cm (4o)</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:105%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">As for the u’s and v’s, you are right, it is: TRATADO BREVE DEL DVLCISSIMO NOMBRE DE MARIA. Words on page [iii]:
Cvmpliendo … con gusto … Reuerendo Padre…” Both the u’s and v’s are roman, medial, and used as vowels.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:105%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">I think where I get stuck is that I have been thinking about the letters’ use in the words. I mean, clearly the
typesetter has both u’s and v’s, so why use a “u” in “gusto” (a correct modern spelling), while also using it in the word “Reueredno” (Reverendo)? And why use a “v” in ‘Cvmpliendo” (Cumpliendo)? The use of the u’s and v’s are not consistent in my mind. Is
that all irrelevant? Just transcribe according to the rules and stop overthinking?</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:105%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Thank you for your help.=!</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:105%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:105%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Joan</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:105%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#3D85C6">Joan Milligan</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#3D85C6">Special Collections Cataloger</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#3D85C6">University of Dayton Libraries</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#3D85C6">300 College Park</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#3D85C6">Dayton, Ohio 45469-1360</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#3D85C6">937-229-4075</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#3D85C6"><a href="mailto:jmilligan1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">jmilligan1@udayton.edu</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="96" height="96" style="width:1.0in;height:1.0in" id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1Ys0jBtEkPYaahqRka-wTbbqbaf1TyZB3&revid=0B_XOks_ZMrT8Vjh3NzdjaUphVHNOMzZrWTFqSElZcnd1b0o4PQ"><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 10:56 AM Deborah J. Leslie <<a href="mailto:DJLeslie@folger.edu">DJLeslie@folger.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#993366">The rule of thumb in how to treat misnumberings is whether the misnumberings are self-correcting, and I
can't tell from your description. If self-correcting, that is, if the misnumberings are anomalous and the last numbered page corresponds to the actual number of pages in the sequence, ignore the misnumberings in the pagination. A note may be made about the
misnumberings, but is optional (unless a misnumbering represents the last page of a sequence).
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#993366"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#993366">However, I believe your book is OCLC #433778755, yes? Apparently the pagination does not self-correct, although
their method in the 300$a is not the preferred way to record the fact that the last numbered page doesn't correspond with the actual number of pages. Review DCRM(B) 5B7.2. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#993366"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#993366">You'll also want to re-check the UV in your title transcription. Be suspicious of all uppercase V's, and
follow the practice of the printer for type classification (e.g., roman), use (vowel or consonant), and position (initial or medial). The conventional lowercase forms for uppercase 'V' for the time would be an initial lowercase 'v'—regardless of vowel or consonant—and
a medial lowercase 'u'—again, regardless of whether it's a vowel or consonant. Without seeing the title page, I'd guess it reads
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif">TRATADO BREVE DEL DVLCISSIMO NOMBRE DE MARIA,<span style="color:#993366"> with corresponding lowercase forms of 'V' as
</span>Tratado breue del dulcissimo nombre de Maria<span style="color:#993366">, which is exactly how the Biblioteca Nacional de Espana has done it. Of course, you will add a 246 for the title with uppercase V's. </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#993366"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#993366">Thanks for asking the question, Joan, and I encourage more questions like these. No need to sweat things
out alone!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#993366"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#31849B">Deborah J. Leslie, MA, MLS | Senior Cataloger, Folger Shakespeare Library |
<a href="mailto:djleslie@folger.edu" target="_blank">djleslie@folger.edu</a> | 201 East Capitol Street, S.E. | Washington, DC 20003 | 202.675-0369 |
<a href="http://orcid.org" target="_blank">orcid.org</a> 0000-0001-5848-5467</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#993366"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> DCRM-L [mailto:<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>O'Keefe, Doris<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 16 July, 2019 10:03<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] many, many misnumbered pages</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Joan,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">At the American Antiquarian Society our standard note is:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Errors in paging: p. 15, 43, 46 misnumbered 51, 45, 47.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Eleven is a lot of misnumbered pages! To make the note more concise, if the errors are consecutive
we’d note:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Errors in paging: p. 15, 43-46 misnumbered 51, 45-48.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hope this helps.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Doris O’Keefe</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Senior Cataloger for Rare Books</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">American Antiquarian Society</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">185 Salisbury Street</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Worcester, Mass 01609</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> DCRM-L [<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joan Milligan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 16, 2019 9:54 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [DCRM-L] many, many misnumbered pages</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Hello everyone,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I need help in phrasing two notes in a more correct and sleek manner. For the first, I currently I have:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
<i>Eleven pages missing: 62, 87, 235-242, 312.</i></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">But, the truth is, the 11 pages are not missing, per se, they are misnumbered. That is, the pagination is, for instance:
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">… 60, 61, 63, 64 …</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">… 233, 234, 243, 244, 245 ...</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">In addition, I have:
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<i>Eleven pages misnumbered: 15, 43, 46, 49, 118, 119, 180, 249, 253, 255, 309. </i>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">That is, page 15 says “51”; page 43 says “45”; page 46 says “47”; etc.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Should all of this information be in one note? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Thank you,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Joan</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#3D85C6">Joan Milligan</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#3D85C6">Special Collections Cataloger</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#3D85C6">University of Dayton Libraries</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#3D85C6">300 College Park</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#3D85C6">Dayton, Ohio 45469-1360</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#3D85C6">937-229-4075</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#3D85C6"><a href="mailto:jmilligan1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">jmilligan1@udayton.edu</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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