<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">The logic may hold for 12mo - but for many incunabula (and early 16th-century books), folios (and some quartos) are gathered in alternating units that often do start with the smaller number, and are sensibly recorded as ^8/10 or ^6/8/8, <i class="">pace</i> Bowers. (There are several cases where Bod-Inc and GW collations appear to differ, but actually just start the compressed groups with a different quire.)<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Does Bowers actually discuss the order of numbers? He certainly gives examples of the usage, explaining it in one place (with acknowledgment to Pollard), but I don’t quickly find anywhere that he says the numbers should always be given with the higher number first.<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">And though it might be logical for this collation, what about A⁴ B⁸ C⁴ D⁸ E⁶ (or similar sequences)?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As Tanselle has pointed out in the discussion of odd superscripts (e.g., for 18mo in nines), the collation is not about the logic of the printer, but about the structure of the book itself. And A-F^4/8 describes the structure more compactly than A^4 B-E^8/4 F^8.<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">John Lancaster</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Sep 16, 2019, at 9:52 AM, Noble, Richard <<a href="mailto:richard_noble@brown.edu" class="">richard_noble@brown.edu</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">The convention (per Bowers) is to use only 8/4, not 4/8. So if it's as in the first example, it's A^4 B-E^8/4 F^8. Much clearer about the facts of this case, given that A and F would almost certainly have been printed together as the A/F sheet, in the same manner as B/C and D/E. It seems arbitrary, but there's a logic to it that makes it easier to reverse engineer books in this format if one always thinks, in the first instance, of folded and sewn 12mo 8/4 sheets as the object of the description, since a basic question for which the formula can provide a guide to further analysis, is "What type was on the bed of the press at the same time?"</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br class=""></div><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><font face="'courier new', monospace" class="">RICHARD NOBLE :: RARE MATERIALS CATALOGUER :: JOHN HAY LIBRARY</font><div class=""><font face="'courier new', monospace" class="">BROWN UNIVERSITY :: PROVIDENCE, R.I. 02912 :: 401-863-1187</font></div><div class=""><span style="font-family:'courier new',monospace" class=""><</span><a href="mailto:RICHARD_NOBLE@BROWN.EDU" style="font-family:'courier new',monospace" target="_blank" class="">Richard_Noble@Br</a><span style="font-family:'courier new',monospace" class=""><a href="http://own.edu/" target="_blank" class="">own.edu</a></span><span style="font-family:'courier new',monospace" class="">></span></div></div></div><br class=""></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 5:08 PM Matthew C. Haugen <<a href="mailto:matthew.haugen@columbia.edu" class="">matthew.haugen@columbia.edu</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class="">Hi Christine, <br class=""><br class="">I found the following at: <a href="https://manual.stcv.be/p/Collation_Formula" target="_blank" class="">https://manual.stcv.be/p/Collation_Formula <br class=""></a><div class=""><font color="#333333" face="Open Sans, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" class=""><span style="font-size:14px" class=""><br class=""></span></font><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Gatherings with regularly alternating numbers of folios can be amalgamated into a series formula, where the two numbers are given in superscript and separated by a forward slash. If there is an odd number of gatherings, the final gathering, regular or not, is mentioned separately. The first number in superscript always corresponds to the number of folios from the first gathering of the series, the second number always corresponds to the number of leaves from the last gathering of the series.</blockquote><div class=""> </div><blockquote style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:0px 0px 0px 1rem;margin:0px 0px 1rem 3rem;font-size:14px;border-left:1px solid red;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:"Open Sans",Verdana,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif" class=""><div style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 0.5rem;" class=""><i style="box-sizing:border-box" class=""><b style="box-sizing:border-box" class="">Examples</b></i><br style="box-sizing:border-box" class=""></div><div style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 0.5rem;" class="">A<span style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:0;font-size:10.5px;vertical-align:baseline" class="">4</span> B<span style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:0;font-size:10.5px;vertical-align:baseline" class="">8</span> C<span style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:0;font-size:10.5px;vertical-align:baseline" class="">4</span> D<span style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:0;font-size:10.5px;vertical-align:baseline" class="">8</span> E<span style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:0;font-size:10.5px;vertical-align:baseline" class="">4</span> F<span style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:0;font-size:10.5px;vertical-align:baseline" class="">8</span> becomes A-F<span style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:0;font-size:10.5px;vertical-align:baseline" class="">4/8</span><br style="box-sizing:border-box" class=""></div><div style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px;" class="">A<span style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:0;font-size:10.5px;vertical-align:baseline" class="">8</span> B<span style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:0;font-size:10.5px;vertical-align:baseline" class="">4</span> C<span style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:0;font-size:10.5px;vertical-align:baseline" class="">8</span> D<span style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:0;font-size:10.5px;vertical-align:baseline" class="">4</span> E<span style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:0;font-size:10.5px;vertical-align:baseline" class="">8</span> F<span style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:0;font-size:10.5px;vertical-align:baseline" class="">4</span> G<span style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:0;font-size:10.5px;vertical-align:baseline" class="">8</span> becomes A-F<span style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:0;font-size:10.5px;vertical-align:baseline" class="">8/4</span> G<span style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:0;font-size:10.5px;vertical-align:baseline" class="">8</span></div></blockquote><div style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px;" class="">I hope that helps!</div><div style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px;" class="">Matt</div></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 4:29 PM Christine Bone <<a href="mailto:Christine.Bone@umanitoba.ca" target="_blank" class="">Christine.Bone@umanitoba.ca</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<div class="gmail-m_-7822769487446696773gmail-m_1008731570063934353WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" class="">Hello DCRM-L.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" class="">I have a 12mo book where the leaf counts alternate from one gathering to the next: A⁸B⁴C⁸D⁴ and so on.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" class="">Is there a shorthand to reflect this, or do I need to list them all individually?<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" class="">Thanks!<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:gray" class="">Christine Bone | Cataloguing and Metadata Librarian | University of Manitoba Libraries | 204.474.7853 |
<a href="mailto:christine.bone@umanitoba.ca" target="_blank" class="">christine.bone@umanitoba.ca</a><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>-- <br class=""><div dir="ltr" class="gmail-m_-7822769487446696773gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Matthew C. Haugen<br class="">Rare Book Cataloger | Columbia University Libraries<br class=""><a href="mailto:matthew.haugen@columbia.edu" target="_blank" class="">matthew.haugen@columbia.edu</a> | 212-851-2451 | he/him/his<br class=""></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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