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I hate to throw a monkey wrench into this discussion, but I have been using 340, I believe correctly, in all sorts of records, not just DCRM records, <span style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important">for
all sorts of things (including format),</span> ever since we began cataloging with RDA, so I think it would be rather high handed and wrong for the rare materials community to suggest that 340 be stripped out of all records not coded DCRM.</div>
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I'm also not sure about Richard's statement below that "<span style="color: rgb(50, 49, 48); font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: small; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important">340 field should be regarded as an index only (call
it a "linked datum"), requiring support elsewhere in the record</span>". I don't see anything in the MARC format documentation supporting this statement. My understanding that 340, along with other 3XX fields, was created to accomodate RDA elements, and many
catalogers have been using it in good faith to record those elements.</div>
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Bob</div>
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<div class="PlainText">Robert L. Maxwell<br>
Ancient Languages and Special Collections Cataloger<br>
6728 Harold B. Lee Library<br>
Brigham Young University<br>
Provo, UT 84602<br>
(801)422-5568 <br>
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"We should set an example for all the world, rather than confine ourselves to the course which has been heretofore pursued"--Eliza R. Snow, 1842.<br>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu> on behalf of Noble, Richard <richard_noble@brown.edu><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 14, 2019 1:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Revision Group List <dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] 340 field in bib. records for books of the machine-press era</font>
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<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif; font-size:small">The 340 field should be regarded as an index only (call it a "linked datum"), requiring support elsewhere in the record. The legacy of bookseller format (based on height and proportions,
and pricing, of the bound book) is still too much with us, and all too often counterfactual as to bibliographic format--which is itself only <i>roughly</i> determinable by the criteria of rdabf (leaf-to-sheet proportion), and may be regarded as more properly
related to the formes from which whole or partial sheets of paper are printed. See G.T. Tanselle's "The concept of format" (in SB 53) for good reasons not to get entangled in format much past the 1830s, unless you've got good reasons for it; and I'd guess
at 1830 as a better cut-off date for Iris O'Brien's admirable suggestion, though most BL records can be rather sketchy in this respect for earlier books as well. I suspect that the field as applied by them is mostly of interest with respect to their own holdings,
because it was their now long outmoded terminology for shelf size.</div>
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<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif; font-size:small">As to the not always so easy to define or descry distinction of "machine-press" from "hand-press" books: all books--at least those printed from type or plates--have bibliographic
format. An 1880 edition in 8s may well actually be a 32mo in 8s, but the evidence is quite subtle or simply lacking. Still, for our kind of work, the paper proportion approach is probably the most practicable. And where that can't be determined, a report of
signatures (and whether or not they correspond to physical gatherings) will suffice for dcrmb records. If format cannot be or simply isn't given in physical description, 340 is not applicable.</div>
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<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif; font-size:small">That said, I've been working with 20th-c. books in which the binding format, so to call it, may well be significant evidence in the distinction of printings (which may be obscured
by the retention of signatures in printing plates), and I may start hunting for thread. (But I don't state a format without further evidence, and instead give the leaf height and width to the 1oth of a cm. One thing that
<i>really</i> changes over the course of the c19 is measurement tolerance within batches of assembly-line binding.) Really, the criterion is: have you done your bit of RBS DesBib homework on the book?</div>
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<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif; font-size:small">Apologies for not having time to shorten this.</div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_signature"><font face="'courier new', monospace">RICHARD NOBLE :: RARE MATERIALS CATALOGUER :: JOHN HAY LIBRARY</font>
<div><font face="'courier new', monospace">BROWN UNIVERSITY :: PROVIDENCE, R.I. 02912 :: 401-863-1187</font></div>
<div><span style="font-family:'courier new',monospace"><</span><a href="mailto:RICHARD_NOBLE@BROWN.EDU" target="_blank" style="font-family:'courier new',monospace">Richard_Noble@Br</a><span style="font-family:'courier new',monospace"><a href="http://own.edu" target="_blank">own.edu</a></span><span style="font-family:'courier new',monospace">></span></div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 10:30 AM Deborah J. Leslie <<a href="mailto:DJLeslie@folger.edu">DJLeslie@folger.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Georgia,serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">I can't envision any objections from the rare materials community, but
<i>if</i> you wanted more feedback, it could be framed to dcrm-l without particular reference to the British Library.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt; color:rgb(46,116,181)">______________________<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt; color:rgb(46,116,181)">Deborah J Leslie (she/her) | Senior Cataloger | Folger Shakespeare Library | 201 East Capitol Street, S.E. Washington, DC 20003 |
<a href="mailto:djleslie@folger.edu" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(46,116,181); text-decoration:none">djleslie@folger.edu</span></a>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Kate Moriarty <<a href="mailto:kate.moriarty@slu.edu" target="_blank">kate.moriarty@slu.edu</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 14 November, 2019 10:16<br>
<b>To:</b> Deborah J. Leslie <DJLeslie@FOLGER.edu>; 'Moody, Honor M.' <<a href="mailto:honor_moody@harvard.edu" target="_blank">honor_moody@harvard.edu</a>>; 'Lapka, Francis' <<a href="mailto:francis.lapka@yale.edu" target="_blank">francis.lapka@yale.edu</a>>;
'Iris' <<a href="mailto:Iris.O%27Brien@bl.uk" target="_blank">Iris.O'Brien@bl.uk</a>>; '<a href="mailto:noah.sheola@bc.edu" target="_blank">noah.sheola@bc.edu</a>' <<a href="mailto:noah.sheola@bc.edu" target="_blank">noah.sheola@bc.edu</a>>; '<a href="mailto:Richard_Noble@brown.edu" target="_blank">Richard_Noble@brown.edu</a>'
<<a href="mailto:Richard_Noble@brown.edu" target="_blank">Richard_Noble@brown.edu</a>>; '<a href="mailto:dezel002@umn.edu" target="_blank">dezel002@umn.edu</a>' <<a href="mailto:dezel002@umn.edu" target="_blank">dezel002@umn.edu</a>>; '<a href="mailto:marseidl@vassar.edu" target="_blank">marseidl@vassar.edu</a>'
<<a href="mailto:marseidl@vassar.edu" target="_blank">marseidl@vassar.edu</a>>; '<a href="mailto:jpbarton@princeton.edu" target="_blank">jpbarton@princeton.edu</a>' <<a href="mailto:jpbarton@princeton.edu" target="_blank">jpbarton@princeton.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: 340 field in bib. records for books of the machine-press era<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black">By the way, thanks a lot for taking this on, Iris.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black">~Kate<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:15pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:rgb(43,43,43)"><img border="0" id="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144formula" alt="Saint Louis University" name="x_m_7532294587478265144_formula" src="https://www.slu.edu/marcom/tools-downloads/imgs/signature/slu-logo.png"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43); border:1pt none windowtext; padding:0in">Kate S. Moriarty, MSW, MLS</span><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<i><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43); border:1pt none windowtext; padding:0in">Pronouns: she/her/hers</span></i><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43); border:1pt none windowtext; padding:0in"><br>
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<span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43); border:1pt none windowtext; padding:0in">Rare Book Catalog Librarian, Professor</span><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43); border:1pt none windowtext; padding:0in">Saint Louis University</span><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43); border:1pt none windowtext; padding:0in">Pius XII Memorial Library</span><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43); border:1pt none windowtext; padding:0in">3650 Lindell Blvd.,</span><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43)"> <span style="border:1pt none windowtext; padding:0in">#320-2, </span>St.
Louis, MO 63108<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43); border:1pt none windowtext; padding:0in">314-977-3024</span><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43); border:1pt none windowtext; padding:0in"><a href="mailto:kate.moriarty@slu.edu" target="_blank">kate.moriarty@slu.edu</a> </span><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43)"> <span style="border:1pt none windowtext; padding:0in"><br>
<a href="http://lib.slu.edu/special-collections" target="_blank">http://lib.slu.edu/special-collections</a> </span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> Kate Moriarty <<a href="mailto:kate.moriarty@slu.edu" target="_blank">kate.moriarty@slu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 13, 2019 1:03 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Deborah J. Leslie <<a href="mailto:DJLeslie@FOLGER.edu" target="_blank">DJLeslie@FOLGER.edu</a>>; 'Moody, Honor M.' <<a href="mailto:honor_moody@harvard.edu" target="_blank">honor_moody@harvard.edu</a>>; 'Lapka, Francis' <<a href="mailto:francis.lapka@yale.edu" target="_blank">francis.lapka@yale.edu</a>>;
'Iris' <<a href="mailto:Iris.O%27Brien@bl.uk" target="_blank">Iris.O'Brien@bl.uk</a>>; '<a href="mailto:noah.sheola@bc.edu" target="_blank">noah.sheola@bc.edu</a>' <<a href="mailto:noah.sheola@bc.edu" target="_blank">noah.sheola@bc.edu</a>>; '<a href="mailto:Richard_Noble@brown.edu" target="_blank">Richard_Noble@brown.edu</a>'
<<a href="mailto:Richard_Noble@brown.edu" target="_blank">Richard_Noble@brown.edu</a>>; '<a href="mailto:dezel002@umn.edu" target="_blank">dezel002@umn.edu</a>' <<a href="mailto:dezel002@umn.edu" target="_blank">dezel002@umn.edu</a>>; '<a href="mailto:marseidl@vassar.edu" target="_blank">marseidl@vassar.edu</a>'
<<a href="mailto:marseidl@vassar.edu" target="_blank">marseidl@vassar.edu</a>>; '<a href="mailto:jpbarton@princeton.edu" target="_blank">jpbarton@princeton.edu</a>' <<a href="mailto:jpbarton@princeton.edu" target="_blank">jpbarton@princeton.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: 340 field in bib. records for books of the machine-press era</span>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black">I also like the approach of stripping 340s from records not explicitly coded dcrmb, dcrb, etc.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black">~Kate<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43); border:1pt none windowtext; padding:0in">Kate S. Moriarty, MSW, MLS</span><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<i><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43); border:1pt none windowtext; padding:0in">Pronouns: she/her/hers</span></i><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43); border:1pt none windowtext; padding:0in"><br>
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</span><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43); border:1pt none windowtext; padding:0in">Rare Book Catalog Librarian, Professor</span><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43); border:1pt none windowtext; padding:0in">Saint Louis University</span><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43); border:1pt none windowtext; padding:0in">Pius XII Memorial Library</span><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43); border:1pt none windowtext; padding:0in">3650 Lindell Blvd.,</span><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43)"> <span style="border:1pt none windowtext; padding:0in">#320-2, </span>St.
Louis, MO 63108<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43); border:1pt none windowtext; padding:0in">314-977-3024</span><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43); border:1pt none windowtext; padding:0in"><a href="mailto:kate.moriarty@slu.edu" target="_blank">kate.moriarty@slu.edu</a> </span><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(43,43,43)"> <span style="border:1pt none windowtext; padding:0in"><br>
<a href="http://lib.slu.edu/special-collections" target="_blank">http://lib.slu.edu/special-collections</a> </span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> Deborah J. Leslie <<a href="mailto:DJLeslie@FOLGER.edu" target="_blank">DJLeslie@FOLGER.edu</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 13, 2019 12:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Moody, Honor M.' <<a href="mailto:honor_moody@harvard.edu" target="_blank">honor_moody@harvard.edu</a>>; 'Lapka, Francis' <<a href="mailto:francis.lapka@yale.edu" target="_blank">francis.lapka@yale.edu</a>>; 'Iris' <<a href="mailto:Iris.O%27Brien@bl.uk" target="_blank">Iris.O'Brien@bl.uk</a>>;
'<a href="mailto:noah.sheola@bc.edu" target="_blank">noah.sheola@bc.edu</a>' <<a href="mailto:noah.sheola@bc.edu" target="_blank">noah.sheola@bc.edu</a>>; '<a href="mailto:Richard_Noble@brown.edu" target="_blank">Richard_Noble@brown.edu</a>' <<a href="mailto:Richard_Noble@brown.edu" target="_blank">Richard_Noble@brown.edu</a>>;
'<a href="mailto:dezel002@umn.edu" target="_blank">dezel002@umn.edu</a>' <<a href="mailto:dezel002@umn.edu" target="_blank">dezel002@umn.edu</a>>; '<a href="mailto:marseidl@vassar.edu" target="_blank">marseidl@vassar.edu</a>' <<a href="mailto:marseidl@vassar.edu" target="_blank">marseidl@vassar.edu</a>>;
'<a href="mailto:jpbarton@princeton.edu" target="_blank">jpbarton@princeton.edu</a>' <<a href="mailto:jpbarton@princeton.edu" target="_blank">jpbarton@princeton.edu</a>>; Kate Moriarty <<a href="mailto:kate.moriarty@slu.edu" target="_blank">kate.moriarty@slu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [External] RE: 340 field in bib. records for books of the machine-press era</span>
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<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Georgia,serif; color:rgb(153,51,102)">I like this approach.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Georgia,serif; color:rgb(153,51,102)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(46,116,181)">______________________</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(46,116,181)">Deborah J Leslie (she/her) | Senior Cataloger | Folger Shakespeare Library | 201 East Capitol Street, S.E. Washington, DC
20003 | <a href="mailto:djleslie@folger.edu" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(46,116,181); text-decoration:none">djleslie@folger.edu</span></a>
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<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Georgia,serif; color:rgb(153,51,102)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Moody, Honor M. <<a href="mailto:honor_moody@harvard.edu" target="_blank">honor_moody@harvard.edu</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 13 November, 2019 13:33<br>
<b>To:</b> Lapka, Francis <<a href="mailto:francis.lapka@yale.edu" target="_blank">francis.lapka@yale.edu</a>>; Deborah J. Leslie <<a href="mailto:DJLeslie@FOLGER.edu" target="_blank">DJLeslie@FOLGER.edu</a>>; Iris <<a href="mailto:Iris.O%27Brien@bl.uk" target="_blank">Iris.O'Brien@bl.uk</a>>;
'<a href="mailto:noah.sheola@bc.edu" target="_blank">noah.sheola@bc.edu</a>' <<a href="mailto:noah.sheola@bc.edu" target="_blank">noah.sheola@bc.edu</a>>; '<a href="mailto:Richard_Noble@brown.edu" target="_blank">Richard_Noble@brown.edu</a>' <<a href="mailto:Richard_Noble@brown.edu" target="_blank">Richard_Noble@brown.edu</a>>;
'<a href="mailto:dezel002@umn.edu" target="_blank">dezel002@umn.edu</a>' <<a href="mailto:dezel002@umn.edu" target="_blank">dezel002@umn.edu</a>>; '<a href="mailto:marseidl@vassar.edu" target="_blank">marseidl@vassar.edu</a>' <<a href="mailto:marseidl@vassar.edu" target="_blank">marseidl@vassar.edu</a>>;
'<a href="mailto:jpbarton@princeton.edu" target="_blank">jpbarton@princeton.edu</a>' <<a href="mailto:jpbarton@princeton.edu" target="_blank">jpbarton@princeton.edu</a>>; '<a href="mailto:kate.moriarty@slu.edu" target="_blank">kate.moriarty@slu.edu</a>' <<a href="mailto:kate.moriarty@slu.edu" target="_blank">kate.moriarty@slu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: 340 field in bib. records for books of the machine-press era</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">My understanding was that the 340s were automatically generated from data appearing anywhere in 300 (e.g., OCLC #560906518), so presence
in the 300 wouldn’t be an indicator of true format.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">I think the real challenge is that we really don’t have any way to tease apart legacy data (that may or may not be true), and data of more
recent vintage (presumptively true). I’d be inclined to say the 340 should be stripped from all records that aren’t explicitly coded dcrmb/bdrb/etc.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">H</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Lapka, Francis <<a href="mailto:francis.lapka@yale.edu" target="_blank">francis.lapka@yale.edu</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 13, 2019 11:54 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Moody, Honor M. <<a href="mailto:honor_moody@harvard.edu" target="_blank">honor_moody@harvard.edu</a>>; Deborah J. Leslie <<a href="mailto:DJLeslie@FOLGER.edu" target="_blank">DJLeslie@FOLGER.edu</a>>; Iris <<a href="mailto:Iris.O%27Brien@bl.uk" target="_blank">Iris.O'Brien@bl.uk</a>>;
'<a href="mailto:noah.sheola@bc.edu" target="_blank">noah.sheola@bc.edu</a>' <<a href="mailto:noah.sheola@bc.edu" target="_blank">noah.sheola@bc.edu</a>>; '<a href="mailto:Richard_Noble@brown.edu" target="_blank">Richard_Noble@brown.edu</a>' <<a href="mailto:Richard_Noble@brown.edu" target="_blank">Richard_Noble@brown.edu</a>>;
'<a href="mailto:dezel002@umn.edu" target="_blank">dezel002@umn.edu</a>' <<a href="mailto:dezel002@umn.edu" target="_blank">dezel002@umn.edu</a>>; '<a href="mailto:marseidl@vassar.edu" target="_blank">marseidl@vassar.edu</a>' <<a href="mailto:marseidl@vassar.edu" target="_blank">marseidl@vassar.edu</a>>;
'<a href="mailto:jpbarton@princeton.edu" target="_blank">jpbarton@princeton.edu</a>' <<a href="mailto:jpbarton@princeton.edu" target="_blank">jpbarton@princeton.edu</a>>; '<a href="mailto:kate.moriarty@slu.edu" target="_blank">kate.moriarty@slu.edu</a>' <<a href="mailto:kate.moriarty@slu.edu" target="_blank">kate.moriarty@slu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: 340 field in bib. records for books of the machine-press era</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Georgia,serif">Do BL catalogers currently use (or have they ever used) the 340 to record bibliographic format in its true sense, rather than as an indicator of size?
If BL catalogers have only ever used 300 $c to record format, would it make sense to delete all 340 format data except where the 340 data echoes what has been recorded in 300 $c (or where it can be determined that the 340 represents true format)?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Georgia,serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Georgia,serif">-Francis</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Georgia,serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Georgia,serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Georgia,serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Moody, Honor M. <</span><a href="mailto:honor_moody@harvard.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">honor_moody@harvard.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 13, 2019 11:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Deborah J. Leslie <</span><a href="mailto:DJLeslie@FOLGER.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">DJLeslie@FOLGER.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">>; Iris <<a href="mailto:Iris.O%27Brien@bl.uk" target="_blank">Iris.O'Brien@bl.uk</a>>;
'<a href="mailto:noah.sheola@bc.edu" target="_blank">noah.sheola@bc.edu</a>' <</span><a href="mailto:noah.sheola@bc.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">noah.sheola@bc.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">>;
'<a href="mailto:Richard_Noble@brown.edu" target="_blank">Richard_Noble@brown.edu</a>' <</span><a href="mailto:Richard_Noble@brown.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Richard_Noble@brown.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">>;
Lapka, Francis <</span><a href="mailto:francis.lapka@yale.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">francis.lapka@yale.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">>; '<a href="mailto:dezel002@umn.edu" target="_blank">dezel002@umn.edu</a>'
<</span><a href="mailto:dezel002@umn.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">dezel002@umn.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">>; '<a href="mailto:marseidl@vassar.edu" target="_blank">marseidl@vassar.edu</a>'
<</span><a href="mailto:marseidl@vassar.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">marseidl@vassar.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">>; '<a href="mailto:jpbarton@princeton.edu" target="_blank">jpbarton@princeton.edu</a>'
<</span><a href="mailto:jpbarton@princeton.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">jpbarton@princeton.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">>; '<a href="mailto:kate.moriarty@slu.edu" target="_blank">kate.moriarty@slu.edu</a>'
<</span><a href="mailto:kate.moriarty@slu.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">kate.moriarty@slu.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: 340 field in bib. records for books of the machine-press era</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">I think my bigger concern is that those 340s are based on size indicators more often than not, and are not reliably accurate for older material
as format, either. I have had multiple email exchanges with the BL reference team over the years asking them to confirm that the copy described in OCLC as being 8vo or 24mo or what have you are actually something else.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">Honor</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Deborah J. Leslie <</span><a href="mailto:DJLeslie@FOLGER.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">DJLeslie@FOLGER.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 13, 2019 10:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'O'Brien, Iris' <<a href="mailto:Iris.O%27Brien@bl.uk" target="_blank">Iris.O'Brien@bl.uk</a>>; '<a href="mailto:noah.sheola@bc.edu" target="_blank">noah.sheola@bc.edu</a>' <</span><a href="mailto:noah.sheola@bc.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">noah.sheola@bc.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">>;
'<a href="mailto:Richard_Noble@brown.edu" target="_blank">Richard_Noble@brown.edu</a>' <</span><a href="mailto:Richard_Noble@brown.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Richard_Noble@brown.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">>;
'<a href="mailto:francis.lapka@yale.edu" target="_blank">francis.lapka@yale.edu</a>' <</span><a href="mailto:francis.lapka@yale.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">francis.lapka@yale.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">>;
'<a href="mailto:dezel002@umn.edu" target="_blank">dezel002@umn.edu</a>' <</span><a href="mailto:dezel002@umn.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">dezel002@umn.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">>;
Moody, Honor M. <</span><a href="mailto:honor_moody@harvard.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">honor_moody@harvard.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">>; '<a href="mailto:marseidl@vassar.edu" target="_blank">marseidl@vassar.edu</a>'
<</span><a href="mailto:marseidl@vassar.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">marseidl@vassar.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">>; '<a href="mailto:jpbarton@princeton.edu" target="_blank">jpbarton@princeton.edu</a>'
<</span><a href="mailto:jpbarton@princeton.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">jpbarton@princeton.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">>; '<a href="mailto:kate.moriarty@slu.edu" target="_blank">kate.moriarty@slu.edu</a>'
<</span><a href="mailto:kate.moriarty@slu.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">kate.moriarty@slu.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: 340 field in bib. records for books of the machine-press era</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">WARNING: Harvard cannot validate this message was sent from an authorized system. Please be careful when opening attachments, clicking links, or
following instructions. For more information, visit the HUIT IT Portal and search for SPF.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Georgia,serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">Iris, that sounds like a good solution. I would lobby for an 1830 cut-off date, which aligns with the scope of such projects as
the Heritage of the Printed Book database, and major collections such as the Folger Shakespeare Library. (-; </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(46,116,181)">______________________</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(46,116,181)">Deborah J Leslie (she/her) | Senior Cataloger | Folger Shakespeare Library | 201 East Capitol Street, S.E. Washington, DC
20003 | </span><a href="mailto:djleslie@folger.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(46,116,181); text-decoration:none">djleslie@folger.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(46,116,181)">
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Georgia,serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> O'Brien, Iris <<a href="mailto:Iris.O%27Brien@bl.uk" target="_blank">Iris.O'Brien@bl.uk</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 13 November, 2019 10:44<br>
<b>To:</b> </span><a href="mailto:noah.sheola@bc.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">noah.sheola@bc.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">;
</span><a href="mailto:Richard_Noble@brown.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Richard_Noble@brown.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">;
</span><a href="mailto:francis.lapka@yale.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">francis.lapka@yale.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">;
</span><a href="mailto:dezel002@umn.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">dezel002@umn.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">;
</span><a href="mailto:honor_moody@harvard.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">honor_moody@harvard.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">;
</span><a href="mailto:marseidl@vassar.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">marseidl@vassar.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">;
</span><a href="mailto:jpbarton@princeton.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">jpbarton@princeton.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">;
</span><a href="mailto:kate.moriarty@slu.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">kate.moriarty@slu.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">; Deborah J. Leslie <</span><a href="mailto:DJLeslie@FOLGER.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">DJLeslie@FOLGER.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">><br>
<b>Subject:</b> 340 field in bib. records for books of the machine-press era</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Dear Colleagues,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I am contacting you because you participated in the DCRM-L discussions
</span>that touched upon the issue of the 340 field for bibliographic format appearing in bibliographic records for books of the machine-press era in Worldcat.
<span lang="EN-GB">As you will probably know by now, the field was introduced as part of an ill-judged batch upload to all existing British Library legacy records, which then filtered through to OCLC.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB">After some lobbying on my side, the British Library is now considering deleting the 340 bibliographic format field in records for books of the machine-press era; I will be writing a work
request to have the field removed but the question now is what the cut-off date should be. My suggestion would be to delete the field for everything published after 1850 but I would like to get some feedback on this to make sure the rare books community is
happy with the outcome.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB">As the fact that the British Library created this mess in the first place is a slightly delicate matter, I am trying to avoid the DCRM-L list for this discussion but I am hoping that we
can discuss this among this smaller group. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB">However, if you can think of any other ways of getting feedback on this without causing too much public exposure of the issue, then please let me know.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Just to give you an idea of the volume of this: if we chose a cut-off date of 1850, i.e. the field would be removed in records for everything published after 1850, we would be looking at
amending over 2,838,000 records.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Thanks for your help.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Kind regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Iris O’Brien</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">------------------------------------------------------</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Iris O'Brien
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Early Printed Collections Cataloguing and Processing Manager</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">The British Library</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">St Pancras</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">96 Euston Road</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">London</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">NW1 2DB</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Tel.: +44 (0)20 7412 7731
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">E-mail:
<a href="mailto:iris.o%27brien@bl.uk" target="_blank">iris.o'brien@bl.uk</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
<br>
******************************************************************************************************************</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt">The Library's St Pancras site is WiFi - enabled</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">*****************************************************************************************************************</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt">The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient,
please delete this e-mail and notify the </span><a href="mailto:postmaster@bl.uk" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt">postmaster@bl.uk</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt">
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<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt">The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the British Library. The British Library does
not take any responsibility for the views of the author. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">*****************************************************************************************************************
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<p class="x_gmail-m_7532294587478265144xxmsonormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt; color:green">Think before you print</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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