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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">That’s really interesting, the idea that Typis might mean “printing firm” by metonymy. That might explain the evidence Yang said she had found for it with that meaning. I agree it shouldn’t generally be part
of a corporate name. As I said on PCC, if someone actually put it above the door of their place of business, I might think differently. And sometimes we do know what people put on the door of their businesses, as in “Sign of the Boar's Head.”
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Ted Gemberling<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu> <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Robert Maxwell<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 10, 2019 12:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group <dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] "Typi ..." vs "Typis ..." for printing house in 110/410<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I think I agree if “typis” is used, except in this case, Archicoenobium Montis Casini would be a corporate body, so perhaps I would say “Typis” isn’t part of the name of the entity (rather than say such names
should be established as personal names). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I think “typi” really does mean the types, i.e. the equipment, even if by metonymy it might mean “printing firm” in some cases, so it seems strange to me to use the word as part of a corporate name. I suppose
if “Typi” appears in the nominative case on the book (“</span><span style="color:#002060">Typi Archicoenobii Montis Casini”</span><span style="color:#1F497D">) that would be an indication that the entity considered it part of its name.
</span><span style="color:#002060"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">On the other hand I’d say that a phrase such as “ex officina Gulielmi Young”
<i>does</i> have a corporate body flavor to it and so I think would justify creation of a corporate body named “Officina Gulielmi Young”. And “Ex typographeio …” seems the same to me.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Bob<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D">Robert L. Maxwell<br>
Ancient Languages and Special Collections Librarian<br>
6728 Harold B. Lee Library<br>
Brigham Young University<br>
Provo, UT 84602<br>
(801)422-5568</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> DCRM-L <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Maxwell<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 10, 2019 11:05 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Revision Group List (<a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>) <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [DCRM-L] FW: "Typi ..." vs "Typis ..." for printing house in 110/410<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F4E79">Forwarded by Deborah Leslie by permission of Yang Wang.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F4E79"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F4E79">Even if
<i>typis</i> translates to 'printing house' instead of 'with the type', the name should still be established as a personal name, right</span><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#993366">?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#2E74B5">______________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#2E74B5">Deborah J Leslie (she/her) | Senior Cataloger | Folger Shakespeare Library | 201 East Capitol Street, S.E. Washington, DC 20003 |
<a href="mailto:djleslie@folger.edu"><span style="color:#2E74B5;text-decoration:none">djleslie@folger.edu</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#993366"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Program for Cooperative Cataloging <<a href="mailto:PCCLIST@LISTSERV.LOC.GOV">PCCLIST@LISTSERV.LOC.GOV</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Yang Wang<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, 6 December, 2019 09:58<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:PCCLIST@LISTSERV.LOC.GOV">PCCLIST@LISTSERV.LOC.GOV</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [PCCLIST] "Typi ..." vs "Typis ..." for printing house in 110/410<o:p></o:p></p>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060">1) In early imprints, the nominative form “Typi” was not often used, but instances exist: Typi Ploetzianis, Typi seminarii, etc.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060">2) Sometimes a single printing house could vary the form of its name:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060"> </span><span lang="FR" style="color:#002060">Typi Archicoenobii Montis Casini<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR" style="color:#002060"> Typis Archicoenobii Montis Casini<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR" style="color:#002060"> Ex Typis Archicoenobii Montis Casini<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR" style="color:#002060"> </span>
<span style="color:#002060">Ex Typographeio Archicoenobii Montis Casini<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060">Evidently, they all point to the same entity. “Typi” cannot possibly mean “types” here, can it?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060">3) In his Manual, Allen translates “typis” as “with the types,” apparently taking it as
<i>ablative of means or instrument</i>. In Bob’s list, however, we see that he takes it as
<i>ablative of source</i> (from which)—a big difference; “type” is also a better translation (Web. 3, type, 3.a-b, using it as a collective singular).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060">4) The definition of <i>typi </i>
as “a printing house” is well attested and documented. It’s new Latin (from Renaissance forward). Naturally, most Latin dictionaries do not have this entry, including TLL. This particular usage became wide spread after 15-16<sup>th</sup> century. In a title
like <i>Bibliothecae Bernensis librorum typis editorum catalogus</i>, what does typis really means here”? “From the printing shops of” or “with types of”?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060">5) Allen should have listed “ex typis” and “typi” along with “typis” in his Manual. By singling typis out the true meaning of the word becomes obscured. As a result, some of us (library catalogers) have been
reluctant to treat typis as part of a corporate name. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060">6) My source: Austrian/German Latin scholar Prof. Johann Ramminger. He is long-term contributor and editor for TLL and has spent last 15 years compiling his Neulateinische Wortliste (<a href="http://www.neulatein.de/"><span style="color:#002060">http://www.neulatein.de/</span></a>,
see “typus” definition 3.b). Furthermore, by clicking on the hyperlink <i>excudo</i> there, we see the phrase “nostris typis” (meaning “from our printing house” or “from my printing house”). BTW, in Wiktionary, someone added/edited the particular entry in
2004 (<a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/typus"><span style="color:#002060">https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/typus</span></a>).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060">Yang <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060">P.S. The LC/PCC’s instruction on how to establishing “Printer’s widow” in NAF has found its way into PS on RDA
<a href="http://9.19.1.1">9.19.1.1</a>. On Monday, a colleague asked how to establish a widow’s name from the statement “<span style="background:white">Typis Viduae Petri Jacobs</span>” on title page. I thought it could be done as a corporate name: Typi Viduae
Petri Jacobs. But a quick browse in NAF bewildered me, hence, the start of the thread of discussion.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> Program for Cooperative Cataloging [<a href="mailto:PCCLIST@LISTSERV.LOC.GOV">mailto:PCCLIST@LISTSERV.LOC.GOV</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Deborah J. Leslie<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 04, 2019 5:43 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:PCCLIST@LISTSERV.LOC.GOV">PCCLIST@LISTSERV.LOC.GOV</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [PCCLIST] "Typi ..." vs "Typis ..." for printing house in 110/410<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D">"Typis" in imprints translates to "with the types." See, C.G. Allen's
<i>A manual of European languages for librarians</i> (2nd ed.), 1999, page 159; also
<a href="Glossary%20of%20common%20Latin%20terms%20found%20in%20imprints%20of%20early%20modern%20printed%20books">
Glossary of common Latin terms found in imprints of early modern printed books</a> (thanks, Bob!).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D">Regarding the amorphous personal vs corporate nature of booksellers and printing shops in the early modern period, the RBMS Bibliographical Standards Committee issued a statement on
"Rules for Establishing Certain Names Associated with Printers," which was adopted by LC as rule interpretations to AACR2 22.2 (for 'Printers' Widows'), and 24.1A ('Printers') for treatment of personal vs corporate entities. In short, if the name is presented
as a personal name, establish it as a personal name; if a formal collaboration, as a corporate name. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D">I'm guessing that the 410 references were made to give as much help as possible to people who aren't conversant with the early modern book trade, or to the cataloging conventions that
govern the formulation of their names. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#2E74B5">______________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#2E74B5">Deborah J Leslie (she/her) | Senior Cataloger | Folger Shakespeare Library | 201 East Capitol Street, S.E. Washington, DC 20003 |
<a href="mailto:djleslie@folger.edu"><span style="color:#2E74B5;text-decoration:none">djleslie@folger.edu</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Program for Cooperative Cataloging <<a href="mailto:PCCLIST@LISTSERV.LOC.GOV">PCCLIST@LISTSERV.LOC.GOV</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Adam L Schiff<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 3 December, 2019 14:46<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:PCCLIST@LISTSERV.LOC.GOV">PCCLIST@LISTSERV.LOC.GOV</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [PCCLIST] "Typi ..." vs "Typis ..." for printing house in 110/410<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">Stephen:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">110 2# Johann Traeg (Firm)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div id="ms-outlook-mobile-signature">
<p class="MsoNormal">Adam Schiff<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div id="id-b162f0c7-b01b-4c7d-9476-c99669dd3965">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Program for Cooperative Cataloging <<a href="mailto:PCCLIST@LISTSERV.LOC.GOV">PCCLIST@LISTSERV.LOC.GOV</a>> on behalf of Stephen Hearn <<a href="mailto:s-hear@UMN.EDU">s-hear@UMN.EDU</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 3, 2019 11:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:PCCLIST@LISTSERV.LOC.GOV">PCCLIST@LISTSERV.LOC.GOV</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: "Typi ..." vs "Typis ..." for printing house in 110/410 <o:p>
</o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">My guess is that the "typis" instances (mostly in 410s) are a mix of grammatical errors by non-Latinists and references intended for non-Latinists who may be searching for the term as they found it on a source.
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">As for the second question--what is the proper way to handle a sole proprietorship, i.e., a person operating as a business? There appear to be lots of them among early publishers. As a person, the entity has an occupation. As a corporate
body, it doesn't. As a person, the entity has birth and death dates. As a corporate body, it has activity dates. Name in inverted order for a person or direct order for a business? If I want to describe a person acting as a business entity in terms appropriate
to a business entity, is there a preferred way to do that? <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Stephen<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 11:15 AM Yang Wang <<a href="mailto:yangwang@princeton.edu">yangwang@princeton.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060">A quick browse of “Typi …” and “Typis …” in the NAF makes one wonder if there has been some confusion as regards which form we are supposed
to use. The Latin word “Typi” (nom., plural) means “printing house.” In most early publications, however, we only see Typis (ablative, plural), short for “ex Typis …” = “from the Printing house of ….”
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060">And, why are there so many such 410 references being used under 100, conflating business enterprises with individual persons? Should
they be 510?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060">I cannot find any answers in RDA or PCC PS on either issue. Any suggestions or comments?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060">Yang</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Stephen Hearn, Metadata Strategist<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Data Management & Access, University Libraries<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">University of Minnesota<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">170A Wilson Library (office)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">160 Wilson Library (mail)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">309 19th Avenue South<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Minneapolis, MN 55455<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Ph: 612-625-2328<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Fx: 612-625-3428<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">ORCID: 0000-0002-3590-1242<o:p></o:p></p>
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