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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">If you don’t get a definitive answer from the list about dates of first printing in Iberian languages/relative frequency, could you do some targeted searching in OCLC
to see what languages are found in imprints from the period for the regional centers of the more established languages? You have quite a few on your list of locations in Spain. It might not be worth it, since I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of people
sent out records to OCLC using essentially your geographic language calculus during recon, and that scholars of non-Spanish/Portuguese Iberian languages probably already have a bunch of catalog hacks to account for the problem.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">That said, there are probably entire monographic series on the relative morphologies and orthographies of the Iberian Romance languages, so maybe there’s a quick and dirty
chart somewhere that would help someone with another Romance language correctly identify the vast majority of the long tail?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">Honor<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu> <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Erin Blake<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 2, 2021 5:49 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group <dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] Clues for distinguishing between 16th- and 17th-century Portuguese vs. Spanish?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">FWIW, I took a sample of 300 "Spanish or Portuguese?" and found the following places (all imprints are pre-1800):<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Belgium:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">
Antwerp <o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">
Brussels <o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal">France:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2">
Perpignan <o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal">Netherlands:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3">
Amsterdam <o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal">Portugal:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo4">
Coimbra <o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo4">
Lisbon<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal">Spain (none are in Galicia, as far as I know):<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5">
Alcalá de Henares <o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5">
Barcelona <o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5">
Cadiz <o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5">
Cordoba<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5">
Huesca <o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5">
Lleida <o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5">
Madrid <o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5">
Málaga <o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5">
Mallorca <o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5">
Múrcia<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5">
Pamplona <o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5">
Salamanca <o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5">
Segovia <o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5">
Seville<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5">
Toledo <o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5">
Tortosa<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5">
Valencia <o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5">
Valladolid <o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5">
Zaragoza <o:p></o:p></li></ul>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a name="SignatureSanitizer__MailAutoSig"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">______________________<br>
Erin Blake, Ph.D. | Senior Cataloger | Folger Shakespeare Library | 201 E. Capitol St. SE, Washington, DC, 20003 |
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| Pronouns: she/her/hers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 4:34 PM Piscitelli, Felicia A <<a href="mailto:f-piscitelli@library.tamu.edu">f-piscitelli@library.tamu.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Caveat: I work a lot with early Spanish-language imprints, especially colonial-era Mexico, but very rarely with Portuguese. So I’m basing my comments on what I know.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I don’t know how much was published or printed in the province of Galicia during those centuries, but Galician would look more like Portuguese than Spanish, even though that province
is part of (present-day) Spain.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Your hunch that that anything Iberian-looking from the Spanish Netherlands is probably Spanish, is probably correct.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Google Translate has its uses, but (IMHO) one should always take it with a pinch of salt.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I hope this helps somewhat.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Felicia Piscitelli, M.M., M.L.S.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Associate Professor<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Rare Book and Special Collections Cataloger and Italian Resources Librarian
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Cushing Memorial Library & Archives
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Texas A&M University<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="mailto:f-piscitelli@library.tamu.edu" target="_blank">f-piscitelli@library.tamu.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">5000 TAMU | College Station, TX 77843<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Tel. 979-458-7880 or 979-845-1951<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Fax: 979-845-6238<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b> DCRM-L <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Erin Blake<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 02, 2021 3:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [DCRM-L] Clues for distinguishing between 16th- and 17th-century Portuguese vs. Spanish?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I'm seeking advice from catalogers experienced with early Portuguese and Spanish imprints....<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Our OPAC has a large set of "preliminary records" where the language coding is incorrect. These won't be shared outside our OPAC, and all have an <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/folgerpedia.folger.edu/Advisory_statements__;!!KwNVnqRv!Wa4h7keffTHBnzhTHonkgc7T3TtyzGOMbkxlQVEOr0LzhB54tw9-JSeE_Y4kle4ODNmj6zMlbr8$" target="_blank">Advisory
statement</a> warning that they're not to be trusted, so the stakes are very low. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">We're looking for a way that non-experts can make the language coding "reasonably okay".<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Options include:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo6">
Assume everything in an Iberian language is in Spanish if published in what's now modern Spain, and Portuguese if published in what's now modern Portugal.<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo6">
Use Google translate, even though it has a modern bias, in the hope that it's mostly okay for Spanish vs. Portuguese. [NB. this is how we discovered the problem in the first place: someone using Google Translate coded a whole bunch of 16th- and 17th-century
Dutch as "Afrikaans".]<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo6">
Code them all "Undetermined language", even though they're already narrowed down to "almost certainly Spanish or Portuguese"?<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Also, is it unreasonably dangerous to code anything Spanish-looking that was published in the Spanish Netherlands (almost always Antwerp) as "Spanish"?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks for any advice you might have!<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Erin.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">______________________<br>
<a name="m_-1603114781461166460_m_-51257411792793">Erin Blake, Ph.D. | Senior Cataloger | Folger Shakespeare Library | 201 E. Capitol St. SE, Washington, DC, 20003 |
</a></span><span style="mso-bookmark:m_-1603114781461166460_m_-51257411792793"></span><a href="mailto:eblake@folger.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">eblake@folger.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
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