<div dir="ltr">Thanks for the advice, everyone! I also heard from people directly, and I think we're good to go now.<div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div><br></div><div>Erin. <br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal"><a name="SignatureSanitizer__MailAutoSig"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">______________________<br></span></a><a name="SignatureSanitizer__MailAutoSig"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Erin Blake, Ph.D.  |  Senior Cataloger  |  Folger

Shakespeare Library  |  201 E. Capitol St. SE, Washington, DC,

20003  |  </span></a><a href="mailto:eblake@folger.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">eblake@folger.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> 

|  </span><a href="https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/-t5RCjRgpBtArRXC7R7_2?domain=urldefense.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">www.folger.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">  

|  Pronouns: she/her/hers</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 9:33 AM Goojer, F.H. de (Frits) <<a href="mailto:F.H.deGoojer@uu.nl">F.H.deGoojer@uu.nl</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

<div lang="NL" style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">

<div class="gmail-m_3543825211211066238WordSection1">

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Dear all,<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Spanish has definite articles: el, la, los and las.<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Portuguese has definite articles: o, a, os and as.<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Maybe this Will help.<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Frits de Goojer<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Drs F.H. de Goojer | Informatie-/collectiespecialist: catalogiseerder handschriften en oude drukken; metadataspecialist | Information specialist early printed books and manuscripts

 | Afdeling Metadata & Acquisitie | Sector Collectie Diensten | Universiteitsbibliotheek Utrecht | Heidelberglaan 3, 3584 CS Utrecht | kamer 5.20 | Postbus 80124, 3508 TC Utrecht | tel. 06 41 60 25 14 |

<a href="mailto:f.h.degoojer@uu.nl" target="_blank">f.h.degoojer@uu.nl</a> | <a href="http://www.uu.nl/bibliotheek" target="_blank">

www.uu.nl/bibliotheek</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<div>

<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">

<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> DCRM-L <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>>

<b>On Behalf Of </b>Piscitelli, Felicia A<br>

<b>Sent:</b> woensdag 3 maart 2021 15:21<br>

<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>

<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] Clues for distinguishing between 16th- and 17th-century Portuguese vs. Spanish?<u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>

<div id="gmail-m_3543825211211066238divtagdefaultwrapper">

<p><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Iris,<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<p><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Your suggestions are good overall. There is an exception, though. The "c" with a cedilla does occur in Spanish (Castilian) as late as the mid-18th century. An example from 1589:<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<p><span class="gmail-m_3543825211211066238subfielddata"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Nos los Inquisidores, contra la heretica pravedad y apostia en la ciudad y Reyno de Toledo; Obispado de Siguença [modern Sig</span></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;color:black">üenza]

</span><span class="gmail-m_3543825211211066238subfielddata"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;color:black">y en los lugares de los Obispados de Avila y Segovia ... / Dn. Lope de Mendoça [modern Mendoza]</span></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<p><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Another example from 1724:<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<p><span class="gmail-m_3543825211211066238subfielddata"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Nos el Maestro D. Fr. Joseph Lanciego, y Eguilaz, monje del gran padre San Benito, por la Divina gracia, y de la Santa Sede, Arçobispo [modern Arzobispo] e la Santa Iglesia

 Metropolitana de Mexico, y su Arçobispado del Consejo de Su Magestad, &c</span></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;color:black">.<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<p><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;color:black">All best,<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<p><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Felicia<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">Felicia Piscitelli, M.M., M.L.S.<br>

Associate Professor<br>

Rare Book and Special Collections Cataloger and Italian Resources Librarian <br>

Cushing Memorial Library & Archives <br>

Texas A&M University<br>

<a href="mailto:f-piscitelli@library.tamu.edu" target="_blank">f-piscitelli@library.tamu.edu</a><br>

 <br>

5000 TAMU | College Station, TX  77843<br>

Tel. 979-458-7880 or 979-845-1951<br>

Fax: 979-845-6238<br>

<a href="http://library.tamu.edu" target="_blank">http://library.tamu.edu</a>  <u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

</div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<p><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

</div>

<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">

<hr size="2" width="98%" align="center">

</span></div>

<div id="gmail-m_3543825211211066238divRplyFwdMsg">

<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black"> DCRM-L <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>>

 on behalf of O'Brien, Iris <<a href="mailto:Iris.OBrien@bl.uk" target="_blank">Iris.OBrien@bl.uk</a>><br>

<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 3, 2021 7:05:36 AM<br>

<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group<br>

<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] Clues for distinguishing between 16th- and 17th-century Portuguese vs. Spanish?</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">

<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Dear Erin,<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">I suspect the assumption that if something was printed in Spain, it has to be in Spanish might be more likely than the assumption

 that something that was printed in Portugal (e.g. Coimbra) has to be in Portuguese as I found at least one record in your catalogue for a book printed in Coimbra that is in Spanish (<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/hamnet.folger.edu/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?BBID=75489__;!!KwNVnqRv!Ug4qFsjeEzIoOUXJpVD6Pq7MGNGNlXL6Q65IrTiSPByOFuQJiVWrNSGzvvUVPgIz8VZb6XFiIQ0$" target="_blank">http://hamnet.folger.edu/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?BBID=75489</a>).

<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">It might be easier to look at language markers instead.<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">If any of the following words or graphemes appear, the book is in Portuguese:<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">em (= in) [used before places; e.g. em Coimbra; em casa de)<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">na (=at) [e.g. na officina de]<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">ç (e.g. as in “licença”) (also used in French, of course, so this is not a marker for Portuguese by itself but only if the

 question is between Portuguese or Spanish) <u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">universidad<b>e

</b>(=university)<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></b></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">If any of the following words or graphemes appear, the book is in Spanish:<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">En (=in) [used before places; e.g. en Madrid; en la casa de)<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">ñ (e.g. as in “año”)<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">universidad (=university)<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Portuguese uses other graphemes that are not normally used in modern Spanish, e.g. ã, õ, ê, ô. However, the first two might

 have been used in an early printed Spanish text as symbols of contraction, so they are not very reliable if you don’t know the language you are trying to identify and I’m not sure whether early printed Portuguese texts would have used the latter two.<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">I hope this helps.<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Kind regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Iris<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">------------------------------------------------------</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Iris O'Brien

</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Early Printed Collections Cataloguing and Processing Manager</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">The British Library</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">St Pancras</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">96 Euston Road</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">London</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">NW1 2DB</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Tel.: +44 (0)20 7412 7731

</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">E-mail:

<a href="mailto:iris.obrien@bl.uk" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">iris.obrien@bl.uk</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> DCRM-L <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>>

<b>On Behalf Of </b>Erin Blake<br>

<b>Sent:</b> 02 March 2021 22:49<br>

<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>

<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] Clues for distinguishing between 16th- and 17th-century Portuguese vs. Spanish?<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Thanks!<u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">FWIW, I took a sample of 300 "Spanish or Portuguese?" and found the following places (all imprints are pre-1800):<u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Belgium:<u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<ul type="disc">

<li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-GB">Antwerp <u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-GB">Brussels <u></u><u></u></span></li></ul>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">France:<u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<ul type="disc">

<li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-GB">Perpignan <u></u><u></u></span></li></ul>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Netherlands:<u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<ul type="disc">

<li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-GB">Amsterdam <u></u><u></u></span></li></ul>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Portugal:<u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<ul type="disc">

<li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-GB">Coimbra <u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-GB">Lisbon<u></u><u></u></span></li></ul>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Spain (none are in Galicia, as far as I know):<u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<ul type="disc">

<li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-GB">Alcalá de Henares <u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-GB">Barcelona <u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-GB">Cadiz <u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-GB">Cordoba<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-GB">Huesca <u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-GB">Lleida <u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-GB">Madrid <u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-GB">Málaga <u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-GB">Mallorca <u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-GB">Múrcia<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-GB">Pamplona <u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-GB">Salamanca <u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-GB">Segovia <u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-GB">Seville<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-GB">Toledo <u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-GB">Tortosa<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-GB">Valencia <u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-GB">Valladolid <u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-GB">Zaragoza <u></u><u></u></span></li></ul>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><br clear="all">

<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<div>

<div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_3543825211211066238_SignatureSanitizer__MailAutoSig"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">______________________<br>

Erin Blake, Ph.D.  |  Senior Cataloger  |  Folger Shakespeare Library  |  201 E. Capitol St. SE, Washington, DC, 20003  | 

</span></a><span></span><span lang="EN-GB"><a href="mailto:eblake@folger.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">eblake@folger.edu</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> 

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   |  Pronouns: she/her/hers</span><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

</div>

</div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>

<div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 4:34 PM Piscitelli, Felicia A <<a href="mailto:f-piscitelli@library.tamu.edu" target="_blank">f-piscitelli@library.tamu.edu</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt">

<div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Caveat: I work a lot with early Spanish-language imprints, especially colonial-era Mexico, but very rarely with Portuguese. So I’m basing my comments on what

 I know.<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I don’t know how much was published or printed in the province of Galicia during those centuries, but Galician would look more like Portuguese than Spanish, even

 though that province is part of (present-day) Spain.<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Your hunch that that anything Iberian-looking from the Spanish Netherlands is probably Spanish, is probably correct.<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Google Translate has its uses, but (IMHO) one should always take it with a pinch of salt.<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I hope this helps somewhat.<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Felicia Piscitelli, M.M., M.L.S.<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Associate Professor<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Rare Book and Special Collections Cataloger and Italian Resources Librarian

<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Cushing Memorial Library & Archives

<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Texas A&M University<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:f-piscitelli@library.tamu.edu" target="_blank">f-piscitelli@library.tamu.edu</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">5000 TAMU | College Station, TX  77843<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Tel. 979-458-7880 or 979-845-1951<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Fax: 979-845-6238<u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/gbr01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http*3A*2F*2Flibrary.tamu.edu*2F&data=04*7C01*7C*7Cd3068df8e98a425aea4908d8ddcd8532*7C21a44cb7f9c34f009afabd1e8e88bcd9*7C0*7C0*7C637503222072654081*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C1000&sdata=cdows*2Bv*2B2ADDBYzNvRCOkUZsFNc1rliTJaypsPTSByg*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!KwNVnqRv!Ug4qFsjeEzIoOUXJpVD6Pq7MGNGNlXL6Q65IrTiSPByOFuQJiVWrNSGzvvUVPgIz8VZbSA1oHy0$" target="_blank">http://library.tamu.edu</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>

<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">

<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> DCRM-L <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>>

<b>On Behalf Of </b>Erin Blake<br>

<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 02, 2021 3:20 PM<br>

<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>

<b>Subject:</b> [DCRM-L] Clues for distinguishing between 16th- and 17th-century Portuguese vs. Spanish?<u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>

<div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I'm seeking advice from catalogers experienced with early Portuguese and Spanish imprints....<u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Our OPAC has a large set of "preliminary records" where the language coding is incorrect. These won't be shared outside our OPAC, and all have an <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/gbr01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Ffolgerpedia.folger.edu*2FAdvisory_statements__*3B!!KwNVnqRv!Wa4h7keffTHBnzhTHonkgc7T3TtyzGOMbkxlQVEOr0LzhB54tw9-JSeE_Y4kle4ODNmj6zMlbr8*24&data=04*7C01*7C*7Cd3068df8e98a425aea4908d8ddcd8532*7C21a44cb7f9c34f009afabd1e8e88bcd9*7C0*7C0*7C637503222072664030*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C1000&sdata=pED5B1qnF*2Fx6yX36CD5enkF4RLr8hjA0a74eOQU8Bb4*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KwNVnqRv!Ug4qFsjeEzIoOUXJpVD6Pq7MGNGNlXL6Q65IrTiSPByOFuQJiVWrNSGzvvUVPgIz8VZbu3Qbj2Y$" target="_blank">Advisory

 statement</a> warning that they're not to be trusted, so the stakes are very low. <u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">We're looking for a way that non-experts can make the language coding "reasonably okay".<u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Options include:<u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<ol start="1" type="1">

<li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-US">Assume everything in an Iberian language is in Spanish if published in what's now modern Spain, and Portuguese if published in what's now modern Portugal.<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-US">Use Google translate, even though it has a modern bias, in the hope that it's mostly okay for Spanish vs. Portuguese. [NB. this is how we discovered the problem in the first place: someone using Google Translate coded a whole bunch of 16th-

 and 17th-century Dutch as "Afrikaans".]<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal">

<span lang="EN-US">Code them all "Undetermined language", even though they're already narrowed down to "almost certainly Spanish or Portuguese"?<u></u><u></u></span></li></ol>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Also, is it unreasonably dangerous to code anything Spanish-looking that was published in the Spanish Netherlands (almost always Antwerp) as "Spanish"?<u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Thanks for any advice you might have!<u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Erin.<u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">______________________<br>

Erin Blake, Ph.D.  |  Senior Cataloger  |  Folger Shakespeare Library  |  201 E. Capitol St. SE, Washington, DC, 20003  | 

</span><a name="m_3543825211211066238_m_-1603114781461166460_m_-51257411792793"></a><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:eblake@folger.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">eblake@folger.edu</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> 

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   |  Pronouns: she/her/hers</span><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</blockquote>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br>

 <br>

******************************************************************************************************************<u></u><u></u></span></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">*****************************************************************************************************************<u></u><u></u></span></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the British Library. The British Library does

 not take any responsibility for the views of the author. </span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">*****************************************************************************************************************

<u></u><u></u></span></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:green">Think before you print</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>

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