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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D">Bob, the international community is going the other way around. Read
<a href="https://unicode.org/faq/ligature_digraph.html#Lig2">this</a>, for existence, from UNICODE. No more ligatured characters will be made, and UNICODE is shying away from presentation styles of letters. (There's a more relevant statement from UNICODE out
there I think, but this is what I find for now.) This is not exactly Erin's question, which concerns pre-modern long and short versions of letters, but there may be a principle to be applied.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D">I don't have an answer but I'll do my best to add to the conversation. 's' is treated different from 'i' because there is no modern letter that takes long 's' as its form. In this
regard, DCRMB was right to treat ijuv as it does—convert to pre-modern or modern practice based on the practice of the printer—which isn't ideal but the least painful solution we could find. It occurs to me that we don't transcribe a pre-modern long 'j' as
an eye because our conversion principle relies on case conversion. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D">I can't predict how attitudes will eventually change, whether in favor of continuing to transcribe a lower-case long eye as a
<b>j, </b>or to tighten up meaning of the letter and shift to transcribing an <b>
i.</b> Worth pointing out that the <a href="https://folgerpedia.folger.edu/Early_Modern_Manuscripts_Online_(EMMO)">
EMMO</a> (manuscript) transcription guidelines call for transcribing a <b>j</b> as an
<b>i</b>, but retains the pre-modern letterform script of a majuscule <b>F</b>, which is transcribed as its written shape--a ligatured minuscule
<b><i>ff</i></b>. (I believe they recognize the inconsistency of principle.) An inconsistency of principle is hard to avoid.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">______________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#5E327C">Deborah J. Leslie, MA, MLS | Senior Cataloger | Folger Shakespeare Library | 201 East Capitol St., SE, Washington, DC 20003 |
<a href="mailto:djleslie@folger.edu"><span style="color:#0563C1">djleslie@folger.edu</span></a> |
<a href="http://www.folger.edu">www.folger.edu</a> | Her opinion her own</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu> <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Robert Maxwell<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 10, 2021 23:07<br>
<b>To:</b> Erin Blake <EBlake@FOLGER.edu>; DCRM Users' Group <dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] Transcription question: why is our small "s" always an "s" but our small "i" is sometimes a "j"?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">I don't know the answer to this except probably at the time the rules were formulated it was impossible to reproduce the long "s" in MARC (or on your average typewriter in pre-MARC days) and I'm
not sure if even now it's possible in OCLC (though you imply it is). But I suspect if we changed the rules to require (or even optionally allow) transcription of long "s" we'd wind up with lots of people who don't know about the rules seeing these records
and deciding in other records to transcribe long "s" as "f", so I'm not sure what I think about the idea of changing the transcription practice. Are there lots of (or even any) examples where long "s" vs. small "s" makes a difference to the identification
of a particular state or issue?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">For my cataloging assignments in Library School we were supposed to TYPE OUT catalog cards (if you can believe it, I am such a dinosaur
</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif;color:black">🙂</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">) and one of the books did have long "s"es on the title page; I typed "f" but used whiteout to remove part of the bar
to turn each into a long "s" (I <b>did</b> know the difference even at that youthful age) and the cataloging prof thought it was great (other class members who typed plain "f" lost points; of course those who typed "s" were given full credit) but I doubt
if many catalogers typing out catalog cards for real had time to use whiteout in these situations ...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Bob<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Robert L. Maxwell<br>
Ancient Languages and Special Collections Cataloger<br>
6728 Harold B. Lee Library<br>
Brigham Young University<br>
Provo, UT 84602<br>
(801)422-5568 <br>
<br>
"We should set an example for all the world, rather than confine ourselves to the course which has been heretofore pursued"--Eliza R. Snow, 1842.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> DCRM-L <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>> on behalf of Erin Blake <<a href="mailto:erin.blake.folger@gmail.com">erin.blake.folger@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 10, 2021 4:33 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [DCRM-L] Transcription question: why is our small "s" always an "s" but our small "i" is sometimes a "j"?</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Does anyone know why the DCRM transcription rules about early modern letterforms treat a lowercase "s" different from a lowercase "i"?
<br>
<br>
An early modern "s" at the front or in the middle of a word has a different shape than an "s" at the end of the word, but it's still an "s" and we transcribe it as an "s" (despite long-s being a unicode character).<br>
<br>
An early modern "i" at the front or in the middle of a word has a different shape than an "i" at the end of the word, but we transcribe them
<i>differently</i>, using the letter "j" for a terminal "i" (even though it's not a "j", it's a j-shaped "i").<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It struck me particularly when looking at the date on one of Hogenberg's "Geschichtsblätter" (<a href="https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/drfWCNkK3GiX9m5sm14hB?domain=luna.folger.edu">https://luna.folger.edu/luna/servlet/s/3bm5h6</a>),
which I've attached here. (It's the date of the event depicted in the engraving, not the imprint, so it's not as weird as it looks).<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="549" height="442" style="width:5.7166in;height:4.6in" id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image001.png@01D72FA5.003128D0"><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Erin.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><a name="x_SignatureSanitizer__MailAutoSig"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">______________________<br>
Erin Blake, Ph.D. | Senior Cataloger | Folger Shakespeare Library | 201 E. Capitol St. SE, Washington, DC, 20003 |
</span></a><a href="mailto:eblake@folger.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">eblake@folger.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> |
</span><a href="https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/a-3SCPNK3GfMZEAu1gup7?domain=urldefense.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">www.folger.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
| Pronouns: she/her/hers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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