<div dir="ltr">Hi Erin,<div><br><div>We had the same discussion while writing DCRM(MSS) (that a Tironian sign does not stand for an ampersand) and, in fact, gave an instruction more along the lines implied in Julie's question.</div><div><br></div><div>0G8.2. ... Transcribe the Tironian sign (⁊) as a coordinating conjunction in the language of the manuscript (e.g., “et” in Latin, “and” in English, “und” in German, “et” in French), enclosing it in square brackets. However, transcribe an ampersand as such, without enclosing it in<br>square brackets"<br></div></div><div><br></div><div>Jenny</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:34 AM Erin Blake <<a href="mailto:erin.blake.folger@gmail.com">erin.blake.folger@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Julie Kemper posed an excellent question on the <a href="https://collation.folger.edu/brevigraphs" target="_blank">Folger blog post about Brevigraphs</a> last week, "</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><span style="font-family:inherit">One question I have is why ampersands and Tironian notes are treated the same. To me they are separate symbols and ampersands should be transcribed as “&” while Tironian notes should be transcribed as “[et]”. Am I being overly pedantic about something which hardly anyone cares about?</span></blockquote><div><br></div><div>That gave me a deja-vu feeling, so I went to the DCRM-L archives, and sure enough, back in <a href="https://listserver.lib.byu.edu/pipermail/dcrm-l/2003-March/000423.html" target="_blank">2003</a>, then again in <a href="https://listserver.lib.byu.edu/pipermail/dcrm-l/2011-August/002495.html" target="_blank">2011</a>, and again in <a href="https://listserver.lib.byu.edu/pipermail/dcrm-l/2013-September/003226.html" target="_blank">2013</a> the collective "we" of this list identified the instruction to transcribe a Tironian sign “et” (⁊) as an ampersand as a problem: mounting evidence showed that "[et]" would be a more appropriate transcription than "&"  but the problem was set aside until "the joint DCRM" was being written. In other words, the time is now.</div><div><br></div><div>Looking back at the discussions, I think the problem originated because gothic type ampersands (in no. 1 of the blog post, an "e" and "t" combined) were being conflated with the Tironian sign "et" (no. 8, short-hand representation of the sound "et"):</div><div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><span style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:inherit"><b>1.</b> </span><strong style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:inherit"> <img src="http://collation.folger.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/09/Plain-ampersand.png" alt="&" width="15" height="14" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; max-width: 100%; height: auto; display: inline-block; vertical-align: middle; margin: 1em 1em 1em 0px;"></strong><strong style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:inherit">[ampersand]<br></strong>This is the easy one. Ampersands are still in use today, so instead of expanding the brevigraph <strong style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:inherit"><em style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:inherit">&</em></strong> in square brackets, rare materials catalogers simply use an ampersand. <br><img src="http://collation.folger.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/09/Plain-ampersand.png" alt="&" width="15" height="14" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; max-width: 100%; height: auto; display: inline-block; vertical-align: middle; margin: 1em 1em 1em 0px;">= & (Latin, <a href="http://collation.folger.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/09/Ampersand_in_context.jpg" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(204,53,53);line-height:inherit;text-decoration-line:none" target="_blank">see in context</a>)<br><img src="http://collation.folger.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/09/gothic-et.png" alt="" width="16" height="22" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; max-width: 100%; height: auto; display: inline-block; vertical-align: middle; margin: 1em 1em 1em 0px;">= & (English, <a href="http://collation.folger.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/09/et_in_context.jpg" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(204,53,53);line-height:inherit;text-decoration-line:none" target="_blank">see in context</a>)<br><img src="http://collation.folger.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/09/etc.png" alt="" width="29" height="19" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; max-width: 100%; height: auto; display: inline-block; vertical-align: middle; margin: 1em 1em 1em 0px;">  = &c. (Latin, <a href="http://collation.folger.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/09/etc_in_context.jpg" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(204,53,53);line-height:inherit;text-decoration-line:none" target="_blank">see in context</a>)<br><strong style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:inherit">8.  </strong><img src="http://collation.folger.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/09/et.png" alt="Tironian sign et" width="19" height="19" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; max-width: 100%; height: auto; display: inline-block; vertical-align: middle; margin: 1em 1em 1em 0px;"><strong style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:inherit">[<em style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:inherit">7</em> at beginning of word]<br></strong>An alternative shape for <em style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:inherit"><strong style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:inherit">&</strong></em>, but actually the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tironian_notes" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(204,53,53);line-height:inherit;text-decoration-line:none" target="_blank">Tironian short hand</a> symbol <strong style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:inherit"><em style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:inherit">⁊</em></strong>, which represents the <em style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:inherit">sound</em> “et” (rather than the word as such). If a particular font didn’t have a dedicated Tironian sign et, then <strong style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:inherit"><em style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:inherit">ꝛ</em></strong> (a small “<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_rotunda" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(204,53,53);line-height:inherit;text-decoration-line:none" target="_blank">r rotunda</a>“) could be used. Because the symbol is a representation of <strong style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:inherit"><em style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:inherit">&</em></strong> and because <strong style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:inherit"><em style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:inherit">&</em></strong> is still used today, rare materials catalogers silently replace it with <strong style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:inherit"><em style="box-sizing:border-box;line-height:inherit">&</em></strong>. See no. 1 for ampersandy ampersands.<br><img src="http://collation.folger.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/09/et.png" alt="Tironian sign et" width="19" height="19" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; max-width: 100%; height: auto; display: inline-block; vertical-align: middle; margin: 1em 1em 1em 0px;">= & (Latin, <a href="http://collation.folger.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/09/Tironian_sign_et_in_context.jpg" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(204,53,53);line-height:inherit;text-decoration-line:none" target="_blank">see in context</a>)<br><img src="http://collation.folger.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/09/etc-50px-e1631300096889.png" alt="&[cetera]" width="32" height="29" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; max-width: 100%; height: auto; display: inline-block; vertical-align: middle; margin: 1em 1em 1em 0px;">= &[cetera] (Latin, with r-rotunda, <a href="http://collation.folger.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/09/etcetera_in_context.jpg" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(204,53,53);line-height:inherit;text-decoration-line:none" target="_blank">see in context</a>; see no. 3 for [cetera])</blockquote></div><div>Is it time to move the Tironian sign "et" into DCRMR's "Brevigraphs" chart, leaving "&" behind in the "Early letterforms and symbols" chart?</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div><br></div><div>Erin.</div><div><br></div><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_-1733806928961302194_SignatureSanitizer__MailAutoSig"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">______________________<br></span></a><a name="m_-1733806928961302194_SignatureSanitizer__MailAutoSig"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Erin Blake, Ph.D.  |  Senior Cataloger  |  Folger
Shakespeare Library  |  201 E. Capitol St. SE, Washington, DC,
20003  |  </span></a><a href="mailto:eblake@folger.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:blue">eblake@folger.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> 
|  </span><a href="https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/-t5RCjRgpBtArRXC7R7_2?domain=urldefense.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:blue">www.folger.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">  
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Jennifer K. Nelson, Ph.D., MLIS</div><div dir="ltr">Senior Reference Librarian<div>The Robbins Collection</div><div>UC Berkeley School of Law</div><div>Berkeley CA 94720</div><div><a href="mailto:jnelson@law.berkeley.edu" target="_blank">jnelson@law.berkeley.edu</a></div><div>(510) 643-9709</div><div><a href="https://www.law.berkeley.edu/research/the-robbins-collection/" style="font-size:12.8px;letter-spacing:0.2px" target="_blank">https://www.law.berkeley.edu/research/the-robbins-collection/<br></a></div><div><a href="https://berkeley.academia.edu/JenniferNelson" target="_blank">https://berkeley.academia.edu/JenniferNelson</a></div><div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>