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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D">Thinking in the bibliographic community has developed and been refined since ABC; not all of our definitions are still the same. I get that some users may not think
of folded letterpress leaves as 'plates', which is why I usually like to make a note when any are present. (This may be a more recent development in my cataloging, come to think of it.) Most users (and some catalogers, alas) also don't understand that even
a whole leaf consisting entirely of non-letterpress is also not a plate if it's integral with a gathering of letterpress, that is, on a sheet that went through both a common press and a rolling press.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D">I remember talking at length with Richard Noble and others about the idea of "out-of-formatness" in considering folded letterpress leaves when DCRM(B) was in development.
If leaves are folded to make them fit in the text block, they are by necessity a different format. The concept of out-of-formatness may not be helpful, but the DCRM(B) editors wanted to be able to articulate a principle for our practices, even if the practices
were already existing—as was the case of considering folded tables as plates). <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">______________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#5E327C">Deborah J. Leslie, MA, MLS | Senior Cataloger | Folger Shakespeare Library | 201 East Capitol St., SE, Washington, DC 20003 |
</span><a href="mailto:djleslie@folger.edu"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#0563C1">djleslie@folger.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#5E327C"> |
</span><a href="http://www.folger.edu"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#0563C1">www.folger.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#5E327C">| Opinions her own</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> DCRM-L <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Steele<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 6, 2021 07:33<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] Folded tables<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks, Deborah. That's what I have always done in the past, and it certainly simplifies cataloging. I guess I was overthinking.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Somehow, I have trouble thinking of gatherings printed on each side of each leaf in the normal way as "plates" except by definition, and I wonder if users of our records think of them as "plates." Cf. ABC of Book Collecting:
<span class="gmail-markedcontent"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"Properly, plates are whole-sheet illustrations, printed separately from the text ..." On the other hand, I can't think of any other convenient way to treat them.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-markedcontent"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">(Bowers p. 242 ff "Folds inside the gathering" was what I was trying to follow, then I ran up against the problem that the inserted folds were
in a different format from the rest of the text...)</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-markedcontent"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Bob</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Dec 3, 2021 at 4:55 PM Deborah J. Leslie <<a href="mailto:DJLeslie@folger.edu">DJLeslie@folger.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D">If the letterpress leaves are folded, they are, by definition, plates. So,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">300 62, [2] pages, [2] folded leaves of plates ; ǂc 20 cm (8vo)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">500 The folded plates consist of …
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D">*Plate. A leaf that is chiefly or entirely non-letterpress, or a folded leaf of any kind, inserted with letterpress gatherings
… </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#2E74B5">______________________</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#2E74B5">Deborah J Leslie, M.A., M.L.S. | Senior Cataloger | Folger Shakespeare Library | 201 East Capitol Street, S.E. Washington, DC 20003 |
</span><a href="mailto:djleslie@folger.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#2E74B5;text-decoration:none">djleslie@folger.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#2E74B5"> |
</span><a href="https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/saNLCERX3ytY6OXhwF2Gb?domain=folger.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#0563C1">www.folger.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#2E74B5"> | Opinions her own</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b> DCRM-L <<a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert O. Steele<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 1 December, 2021 15:56<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu" target="_blank">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] Folded tables<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Or rather 300 62, [2] pages, [4] folded pages ; ǂc 20 cm (8vo)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Bob<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 3:53 PM Robert O. Steele <<a href="mailto:rosteele2021@gmail.com" target="_blank">rosteele2021@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Hello,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I know plates are supposed to be omitted from collation formulas, but what about unsigned letterpress gatherings with a format different from the rest of the work?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I'm cataloging a work consisting of 4 octavo gatherings, with 2 quarto "insertions". I would be tempted to call them "folded plates" except that they are not plates, but rather
letterpress tables. Each insertion is a quarto bifolium printed with the same type and on the same paper as the rest, and each consisting of 4 distinct pages (the tables do not run across the fold). Since they are larger than the octavo gatherings, they are
also folded up from the bottom. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">The quarto bifolia are inserted in reasonable places in my copy, but I'm not sure where they were *intended* to be inserted, possibly inside the last blank leaf (at the end of the
final page: "Suit le tableau ... etc.")<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">The simplest:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">62, [2] pages (8vo), [4] pages (4to)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Signatures: [1]⁸ 2-4⁸ (last leaf blank).<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">With a note explaining the quarto insertions.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">But I'm not sure this is accurate.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I'm tempted by something more complicated such as:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Signatures: : [1]⁸ 2-3⁸ 4⁸ (4₇+chi-²chi²); last leaf blank.
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Advice?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Robert Steele<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">GWU Law<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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