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This is a known problem with diacritics in French specifically; not sure why. </div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><a href="https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6226011/french-letters-in-android-views-show-question-marks">https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6226011/french-letters-in-android-views-show-question-marks</a></span></div>
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<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">John Attig is correct: copy and paste is usually the culprit. </span></div>
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<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 29, 2024 9:37 PM<br>
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<b>Subject:</b> DCRM-L Digest, Vol 216, Issue 33</font>
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Today's Topics:<br>
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1. Re: Weird use of a ? in a French atlas statement of<br>
responsibility (Attig, John C)<br>
2. Re: Weird use of a ? in a French atlas statement of<br>
responsibility (Erin Blake)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2024 01:04:18 +0000<br>
From: "Attig, John C" <jxa16@psu.edu><br>
To: DCRM Users' Group <dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu><br>
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] Weird use of a ? in a French atlas statement of<br>
responsibility<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CYYPR02MB980118B5700BA8886A96DD0EA25E2@CYYPR02MB9801.namprd02.prod.outlook.com><br>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
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Amanda:<br>
<br>
My suspicion is that the letters displayed as a ? were actually superscript letters on the title page ? and were recorded as such in the MARC record. OCLC uses a question mark for characters that it doesn?t know how to display (i.e., characters not in the
MARC character set). This is just one of the joys that occur when a cataloger pastes data into an OCLC record without checking whether all the characters are in fact validly encoded.<br>
<br>
John Attig<br>
Penn State, retired.<br>
<br>
From: DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu> On Behalf Of Sprochi, Amanda K. via DCRM-L<br>
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2024 2:47 PM<br>
To: dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu<br>
Cc: Sprochi, Amanda K. <sprochia@missouri.edu><br>
Subject: [DCRM-L] Weird use of a ? in a French atlas statement of responsibility<br>
<br>
Hi folks:<br>
<br>
Came across a weird thing when cataloging an atlas published in France in 1784. It's Nouvel atlas portatif : destine? principalement pour l'instruction de la jeunesse, d'apre?s la ge?ographie moderne de feu l'abbe? Delacroix / par le S. Robert de Vaugondy,
ge?ographe ord? du roi, de S.M. Polonoise, Duc de Lorraine et de Bar, et de la Socie?te? Royale des Sciences et Celles Lettres de Nancy, et Censeur Royal.<br>
<br>
If you look, yes, you can see the weird random ? after ord, which is an abbreviation of ord[inaire]. At first I couldn't figure out what the heck it was doing there. The title page is engraved so it's not a typesetting error. Then I noticed that other SORs
on individual maps in the atlas use the ? as a wildcard for the ends of various words, such as "Geog? ordinaire du Roy &c." or "Par le S. Robert de Vaugondy Geog? ord? du Roi, de S.M. Pol? Duc de Lorr? et de Bar &c." So it seems it's just a generic symbol
for "whatever the end of this word is."<br>
<br>
Has anyone seen this before or can steer me towards some literature on the subject? It's not mission critical to cataloging the piece but as a long time French student/speaker I've never seen this before and now I'm curious. Thanks!<br>
aks<br>
<br>
<br>
Amanda K. Sprochi<br>
Librarian IV/Cataloger<br>
60 Ellis Library<br>
<br>
The University of Missouri<br>
<br>
Columbia, MO 65211<br>
(573) 882-0461<br>
sprochia@missouri.edu<mailto:sprochia@missouri.edu><br>
<br>
she/her/hers<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The University of Missouri occupies the<br>
<br>
traditional land of the Osage, Kiikaapoi,<br>
<br>
Peoria, and O?h?thi ?ak?wi? peoples.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2024 02:37:11 +0000<br>
From: Erin Blake <EBlake@FOLGER.edu><br>
To: DCRM Users' Group <dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu><br>
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] Weird use of a ? in a French atlas statement of<br>
responsibility<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<MN2PR13MB4006998E6606E6F3651FBE22B15E2@MN2PR13MB4006.namprd13.prod.outlook.com><br>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Dear Amanda,<br>
<br>
The "?" looks like it's trying to evoke the abbreviations that originated in manuscript culture (and carried over into early printing from moveable type). In this interpretation, the "?" would be a mark of suspension indicating that a truncation occurred:
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scribal_abbreviation#Suspension">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scribal_abbreviation#Suspension</a><br>
<br>
For others who are curious, here's a scan of the title page: <a href="https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b550137444/f5.item">
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b550137444/f5.item</a> and here's another example,
<a href="https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-232145227/view">https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-232145227/view</a><br>
<br>
Erin<br>
<br>
<br>
From: DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu> On Behalf Of Attig, John C via DCRM-L<br>
Sent: Thursday, February 29, 2024 8:04 PM<br>
To: DCRM Users' Group <dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu><br>
Cc: Attig, John C <jxa16@psu.edu><br>
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] Weird use of a ? in a French atlas statement of responsibility<br>
<br>
Amanda:<br>
<br>
My suspicion is that the letters displayed as a ? were actually superscript letters on the title page ? and were recorded as such in the MARC record. OCLC uses a question mark for characters that it doesn?t know how to display (i.e., characters not in the
MARC character set). This is just one of the joys that occur when a cataloger pastes data into an OCLC record without checking whether all the characters are in fact validly encoded.<br>
<br>
John Attig<br>
Penn State, retired.<br>
<br>
From: DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu>> On Behalf Of Sprochi, Amanda K. via DCRM-L<br>
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2024 2:47 PM<br>
To: dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu<<a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu">mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</a>><br>
Cc: Sprochi, Amanda K. <sprochia@missouri.edu<mailto:sprochia@missouri.edu>><br>
Subject: [DCRM-L] Weird use of a ? in a French atlas statement of responsibility<br>
<br>
Hi folks:<br>
<br>
Came across a weird thing when cataloging an atlas published in France in 1784. It's Nouvel atlas portatif : destine? principalement pour l'instruction de la jeunesse, d'apre?s la ge?ographie moderne de feu l'abbe? Delacroix / par le S. Robert de Vaugondy,
ge?ographe ord? du roi, de S.M. Polonoise, Duc de Lorraine et de Bar, et de la Socie?te? Royale des Sciences et Celles Lettres de Nancy, et Censeur Royal.<br>
<br>
If you look, yes, you can see the weird random ? after ord, which is an abbreviation of ord[inaire]. At first I couldn't figure out what the heck it was doing there. The title page is engraved so it's not a typesetting error. Then I noticed that other SORs
on individual maps in the atlas use the ? as a wildcard for the ends of various words, such as "Geog? ordinaire du Roy &c." or "Par le S. Robert de Vaugondy Geog? ord? du Roi, de S.M. Pol? Duc de Lorr? et de Bar &c." So it seems it's just a generic symbol
for "whatever the end of this word is."<br>
<br>
Has anyone seen this before or can steer me towards some literature on the subject? It's not mission critical to cataloging the piece but as a long time French student/speaker I've never seen this before and now I'm curious. Thanks!<br>
aks<br>
<br>
<br>
Amanda K. Sprochi<br>
Librarian IV/Cataloger<br>
60 Ellis Library<br>
<br>
The University of Missouri<br>
<br>
Columbia, MO 65211<br>
(573) 882-0461<br>
sprochia@missouri.edu<mailto:sprochia@missouri.edu><br>
<br>
she/her/hers<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The University of Missouri occupies the<br>
<br>
traditional land of the Osage, Kiikaapoi,<br>
<br>
Peoria, and O?h?thi ?ak?wi? peoples.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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