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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Hello!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Erin is correct that this has come up in the RBMS Controlled Vocabularies Editorial Group, most recently shortly after the new vocabulary was released. The initial discussion at that time was
in favor of separating the terms for printed and manuscript marks into Fists and Manicules, respectively, but since it involved needing a new term proposal for Fists and a change proposal for the existing term Manicules (as well as Indexes, which references
Manicules) we put it on hold until we had those proposals to formally discuss. That discussion was a while back now, so if this thread prompts anyone to be interested in working on that set of proposals, please feel free!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Sarah<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">CVEG co-editor<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Sarah Hoover<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Special Collections Cataloger<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Wilson Special Collections Library<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:sehoover@email.unc.edu"><span style="color:#0563C1">sehoover@email.unc.edu</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">919-962-4305<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">she/her/hers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Erin Blake via DCRM-L<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 22, 2025 9:21 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group <dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Erin Blake <EBlake@FOLGER.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DCRM-L] Fists or Manicules?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’ve got a memory of this being under discussion in the RBMS Controlled Vocabularies Editorial Group, with the thought that “fist” is the appropriate term for the printed symbol and “manicule” for the hand-drawn one.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I think it was set aside during the moratorium, when the old vocabularies were merged into one and migrated from MultiTes to the LC Linked Data Service.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">...but it’s entirely possible that this is a conversation Deborah J. Leslie and I were having at the Folger, and it hasn’t gone beyond us, so I’m hoping she’ll jump in.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Erin<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">_______________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Erin Blake, PhD | she/her | <span style="color:black">
Collections Management Systems Administrator and </span>Senior Cataloger | Folger Shakespeare Library | Washington, DC 20003 |
</span><a href="mailto:eblake@folger.edu"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">eblake@folger.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><br>
</span><img border="0" width="100" height="40" style="width:1.0416in;height:.4166in" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.png@01DC433E.0CE9BB30" alt="Folger Shakespeare Library logo"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> DCRM-L <</span><a href="mailto:dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">dcrm-l-bounces@lib.byu.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Christine Megowan via DCRM-L<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 22, 2025 8:00 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> DCRM Users' Group <</span><a href="mailto:dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">dcrm-l@lib.byu.edu</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Christine Megowan <</span><a href="mailto:cmegowan@gmail.com"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">cmegowan@gmail.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [DCRM-L] Fists or Manicules?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Hello DCRM-L colleagues, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">One of our cataloguers is preparing a signature statement for a book which includes a gathering signed with a pointing hand, which prompted some discussion within our team about the use
of "fists" vs. "manicules" in catalogue records. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">DCRM(B) 7B9.2 and DCRMR 6.215.44.2 both instruct the cataloguer: "If the gatherings are signed with other unavailable characters, substitute a descriptive term or an abbreviation for that
term if a standard abbreviation exists." In both texts, the examples include a pointing hand for which the descriptive term [fist] has been supplied.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">If I remember correctly, "fists" was at some point the authorized term for this character in the RBMS Provenance Thesaurus, although I see that it is now a UF under Manicules. I have certainly
encountered the term "manicules" more frequently than "fists" when chatting with other bibliophiles.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I confess I am somewhat bothered by the idea of using one term in a signature statement and another in a genre/form heading, but I wondered what the prevailing opinion might be. Would you
follow the example and use [fist] in a signature statement, or favour consistency with CVRMC and go with [manicule]? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Christine Megowan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">(Research Collections Discovery & Projects Manager, Heritage Collections, University of Edinburgh)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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