[DCRM-L] Citing ESTC

Thu Sep 6 14:08:29 MDT 2007

I favor the using no qualifier.  If people are truly curious about the 
exact version of ESTC, the date the record was input will provide a guide. 
After twenty-five years, it will matter little whether the data was taken 
from ESTC on RLIN or through another source.  People will understand that 
resources may have changed in a way that a printed resource doesn't except 
in discrete editions.  All the cataloger can do is to testify to the state 
of things at the time the record was made, just as a manuscript scholar 
can only be resonsible for the shelfmark at the time of his work, not 
later ones.

Larry

Laurence S. Creider
Head, General Cataloging Unit &
Special Collections Librarian
New Mexico State University
Las Cruces, NM  88003
Work: 505-646-4707, 505-646-7227
Fax: 505-646-7477
lcreider at lib.nmsu.edu

On Thu, 6 Sep 2007, Robert Maxwell wrote:

> I absolutely agree about "online", not "on-line", if we are going to
> qualify. The hyphenated form is obsolete.
>
> But I also favor more Deborah's solution of yesterday and Richard's
> suggestion today--simply "ESTC" with no qualifier.
>
> Bob
>
>
> Robert L. Maxwell
> Special Collections and Ancient Languages Catalog Librarian
> Genre/Form Authorities Librarian
> 6728 Harold B. Lee Library
> Brigham Young University
> Provo, UT 84602
> (801)422-5568
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu]
> On
>> Behalf Of Deborah J. Leslie
>> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 10:37 AM
>> To: ElizRob at alum.emory.edu; DCRM Revision Group List
>> Subject: RE: RE: [DCRM-L] Citing ESTC
>>
>> This makes sense.
>>
>> I question the hyphen. Standard citation forms gives Chicago manual of
>> style as its authority, and the Chicago manual of style gives the 11th
>> ed. Of Webster's collegiate dictionary as its authority for spelling.
>> And Webster's has "online.
>>
>> We submitted to this authority when writing DCRM(B), and I suggest
> that
>> SCF also submit to this authority.
>> __________________________
>> Deborah J. Leslie, M.A., M.L.S.
>> Head of Cataloging
>> Folger Shakespeare Library
>> 201 East Capitol St., S.E.
>> Washington, D.C. 20003
>> 202.675-0369
>> djleslie at folger.edu | http://www.folger.edu
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu]
> On
>> Behalf Of Elizabeth Robinson
>> Sent: Thursday, 06 September, 2007 12:12
>> To: dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu
>> Subject: Fwd: RE: [DCRM-L] Citing ESTC
>>
>> Here's the follow-up. The present proposal is for all
>> the old, out-of-date citation forms (BLAISE, RLIN,
>> microfiche [both editions], and CD-ROM) to remain
>> noted in SCF as background info for present records
>> that have such in their 510s (my suggestion). But for
>> new work, the citation form would be
>>
>> ESTC (on-line)
>>
>> As noted yesterday, this was agreed to by Henry Snyder
>> and Juliet McLaren, the initial question of what form
>> for post-RLIN ESTC raised by Alan Degutis of AAS.
>> Moira Goff at BL was also consulted.
>>
>> Some rationale from Henry: "It occurs to me there
>> might be another alternative, ESTC (online). There are
>> several hundred accounts working off our webpage. It
>> is the same file, if you like a generic one,
>> accessible through two webpages, bl and ucr. This
>> would cover both or any other form of access that
>> might be devised in the future. What we really want to
>> indicate is the information is derived from the online
>> access and implicit is the fact that it is under
>> constant revision ..."
>>
>> Juliet suggested (and Henry later agreed) to the
>> hyphenated "on-line".
>>
>> I have not yet moved this forward through CPSO and
>> CDS, so if there is anything further, Randal, would
>> you please cc me at the erob at loc.gov address on the
>> final verdict?
>>
>> Thanks much.
>>
>>
>> Elizabeth Robinson
>> Team Leader
>> Rare Book Team
>> Special Materials Cataloging Division
>> Library of Congress
>> erob at loc.gov
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- Elizabeth Robinson <vava_22304 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 17:48:14 -0700 (PDT)
>>> From: Elizabeth Robinson <vava_22304 at yahoo.com>
>>> Subject: RE: [DCRM-L] Citing ESTC
>>> To: DCRM Revision Group List <dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>
>>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> Henry Snyder and Juliet McLaren made a formal
>>> revised
>>> submission for ESTC some months ago. I can tell you
>>> what form they asked for on tomorrow when I have
>>> access to my work files. As the maintenance editor
>>> for
>>> _Standard citations_, I basically insure submissions
>>> meet the criteria listed in Working Principles and
>>> the
>>> final forms get to CDS for an update to _Standard
>>> citations_ on Catalogers Desktop.
>>>
>>> After I tell you what Henry and Juliet proposed, if
>>> any of you have objections to the proposed form, I
>>> suggest that you contact the two of them for further
>>> deliberation. And, of course, if there is no
>>> problem,
>>> I will go ahead with the proposed forms.
>>>
>>> Stay tuned.
>>>
>>> Elizabeth Robinson
>>> Team Leader
>>> Rare Book Team
>>> Special Materials Cataloging Division
>>> Library of Congress
>>> erob at loc.gov
>>>
>>>
>>> --- "Deborah J. Leslie" <DJLeslie at FOLGER.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Will,
>>>>
>>>> Although I was arguing the other way in the DCRM-L
>>>> discussion, I have
>>>> been persuaded by the arguments to just use
>>> "ESTC,"
>>>> which is what I've
>>>> been doing since. One problem I ran across was
>>> that
>>>> I access the ESTC
>>>> database most often through the STAR interface
>>>> rather than the BL
>>>> interface, and it just seemed too complicated and
>>>> not very helpful to
>>>> try to distinguish between them.
>>>>
>>>> How about this for a proposal: Use "ESTC" alone in
>>>> the 510 for any
>>>> citation of the online database, whether from
>>>> Blaiseline, RLIN, or the
>>>> BL, while the CD-ROM and the microfilm versions
>>>> should be qualified.
>>>>
>>>> __________________________
>>>> Deborah J. Leslie, M.A., M.L.S.
>>>> Head of Cataloging
>>>> Folger Shakespeare Library
>>>> 201 East Capitol St., S.E.
>>>> Washington, D.C. 20003
>>>> 202.675-0369
>>>> djleslie at folger.edu | http://www.folger.edu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu
>>>> [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On
>>>> Behalf Of Will Evans
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 05 September, 2007 09:44
>>>> To: 'DCRM Revision Group List'
>>>> Subject: [DCRM-L] Citing ESTC
>>>>
>>>> Has any consensus been reached as to how we should
>>>> cite ESTC. I checked
>>>> the
>>>> RBMS archives, but I didn't find anything
>>>> conclusive.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>>
>>>> Will
>>>>
>>>> BTW Kudos to all involved in the elegant and
>>>> user-friendly redesign of
>>>> the
>>>> RBMS website!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>> Will Evans
>>>> Rare Materials Catalog Librarian
>>>> Biography & History Bibliographer
>>>> Boston Athenaeum
>>>> 10 1/2 Beacon Street
>>>> Boston, MA 02108
>>>>
>>>> Telephone: (617) 227-0270, ext. 243
>>>> Fax: (617) 227-5266
>>>> http://www.bostonathenaeum.org/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Elizabeth Robinson
>>> vava_22304 at yahoo.com