[DCRM-L] FW: Correction Re: DPC: Wording of i/j/u/v conversion

Wed Dec 8 11:57:20 MST 2010

I like: 

0G2.2  If the rules for capitalization require converting the letters I or V to lowercase, or i, j, u, or v to uppercase, follow the pattern of usage in the text to determine which letter form to use. [footnote 8; retain as is]

G4.2 As instructed in 0G2.2, when the rules for capitalization require converting the letters I or V to lowercase, or i, j, u, or v to uppercase, follow the pattern of usage in the text to determine which letter form to use.*

_______________

*An uppercase J in the source signals that i and j are functioning as separate letters, requiring no special consideration while converting case. Likewise, an uppercase U in the source signals that u and v are functioning as separate letters, requiring no special consideration while converting case.

p.s. One of the reasons for re-writing the footnote to verbally separate I/J from U/V is to make it clearer that the morphing of u and v from one to separate letters doesn't mean that the same printer also used i and j as separate letters. That is, a single work can have a modern distribution concerning u/v, and a premodern distribution concerning i/j. It's probably not worth trying to spell all that out in the rules, but the slight redundancy in the footnote should dispel any implication of necessary simultaneity. 

From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Margaret F Nichols
Sent: Wednesday, 08 December, 2010 12:44
To: DCRM Revision Group List
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] FW: Correction Re: DPC: Wording of i/j/ u/v conversion in DCRM

I like this proposed change; it does seem clearer to me than the original version.

Margaret

Margaret F. Nichols

Rare Materials Cataloging Coordinator

Cataloging & Metadata Services in RMC

2B Kroch Library

Cornell University

Ithaca, NY 14853-5302

Tel. (607) 255-3530 * Fax (607) 255-9524

E-mail mnr1 at cornell.edu

From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Erin Blake
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 12:09 PM
To: DCRM Revision Group List
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] FW: Correction Re: DPC: Wording of i/j u/v conversion in DCRM

New new proposed change, in response to Bob's comments about the word "graph":

0G2.2./G4.2. If the rules for capitalization require converting the letters i/j or u/v to uppercase or lowercase I or V to lowercase, or i, j, u, or v to uppercase, follow the pattern of usage in the text to determine which modern letterform to use.

Plain-text version of the above, if the crossings-out and underlinings don't show up for you:

EXISTING: If the rules for capitalization require converting the letters i/j or u/v to uppercase or lowercase, follow the pattern of usage in the text.

PROPOSED: If the rules for capitalization require converting the letters I or V to lowercase, or i, j, u, or v to uppercase, follow the pattern of usage in the text to determine which modern letterform to use.

   EB.

From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Erin Blake
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 12:04 PM
To: DCRM Revision Group List
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] FW: Correction Re: DPC: Wording of i/j u/vconversionin DCRM

Phrase is found in two places: 0G2.2 and G4.2  (same number in both (B) and (S))

   EB.

From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Deborah J. Leslie
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 11:49 AM
To: DCRM Revision Group List
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] FW: Correction Re: DPC: Wording of i/j u/v conversionin DCRM

Rule number of proposed change?

From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Erin Blake
Sent: Wednesday, 08 December, 2010 11:33
To: DCRM Revision Group List
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] FW: Correction Re: DPC: Wording of i/j u/vconversionin DCRM

New proposed change, formatted as HTML with crossed-out and underlined text (see below for version all in plain text, if your e-mail client doesn't show HTML): 

If the rules for capitalization require converting the letters i/j or u/v to uppercase or lowercase I or V to lowercase, or i, j, u, or v to uppercase, follow the pattern of usage in the text to determine which graph to use.

Plain-text version of the above, if the crossings-out and underlinings don't show up for you:

EXISTING: If the rules for capitalization require converting the letters i/j or u/v to uppercase or lowercase, follow the pattern of usage in the text.

PROPOSED: If the rules for capitalization require converting the letters I or V to lowercase, or i, j, u, or v to uppercase, follow the pattern of usage in the text to determine which graph to use.

    EB.

From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Deborah J. Leslie
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 11:21 AM
To: DCRM Revision Group List
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] FW: Correction Re: DPC: Wording of i/j u/v conversionin DCRM

Sounds good. Can you do a better-and-after textual comparison?

From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Erin Blake
Sent: Wednesday, 08 December, 2010 09:53
To: DCRM Revision Group List
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] FW: Correction Re: DPC: Wording of i/j u/v conversioninDCRM

Thinking about this some more (and with apologies to Deborah, since she's not in her office, and I can't talk with her in person first) I'm back to thinking the existing wording isn't fine: "If the rules for capitalization require converting the letters i/j or u/v to uppercase or lowercase, follow the pattern of usage in the text" is technically correct, but misleading. Yes, follow the pattern of use: if J needs to be converted to lowercase, the pattern of use happens to always be J > j so it's very easy to determine. But it's also true that patterns of use show A > a, B > b, and so on. Mentioning J and U at all, when there's nothing special about them, is confusing.

"If the rules for capitalization require converting the letters I or V to lowercase, or i, j, u, or v to uppercase, follow the pattern of usage in the text" is also correct, but clearer. (Especially with the comma added, as Margaret Nichols just pointed out). 

Additional possibility: expand the sentence to clarify that conversion of case will sometimes, but not always, involve changing the graph. That's the point of DCRM(B) 0G2.2, but it doesn't explicitly say so. In other words, change it to: "If the rules for capitalization require converting the letters I or V to lowercase, or i, j, u, or v to uppercase, follow the pattern of usage in the text to determine which graph to use."

    EB.

From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Deborah J. Leslie
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 4:18 PM
To: DCRM Revision Group List
Subject: [DCRM-L] FW: Correction Re: DPC: Wording of i/j u/v conversion inDCRM

Erin and I just spoke about this. The existing wording is actually just fine; some of the confusion in this instance appears to arise the fact that there are two types of conversion going on: converting case (e.g., I to i), and converting graph while converting case (i.e., V to u). 

Our solution: Add the note that uppercase J or U signals a modern distribution in 0G2, to let people know at that point that they don't need to look for usage in the text for that particular letter. (Keep in mind that distinction of the letter J as its own letter, and of U as its own letter, didn't necessarily happen at the same time.) That's probably enough, but if people want even more guidance, add to the table "Uppercase letter to be converted" in Appendix G: J à j and U à u 

_________________________ 
Deborah J. Leslie, M.A., M.L.S. 
RBMS past chair 2010-2011 | Head of Cataloging, Folger Shakespeare Library 
201 East Capitol St., S.E. | Washington, D.C. 20003 | 202.675-0369 
djleslie at folger.edu | http://www.folger.edu <http://www.folger.edu/>  

From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Erin Blake
Sent: Tuesday, 07 December, 2010 15:48
To: dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu
Subject: [DCRM-L] DPC: Wording of i/j u/v conversion in DCRM

Last DPC of the season, if we're sticking to one a week: As some of you know, this came up at the BSC meeting at Annual, when it became clear that there was confusion about the phrase "If the rules for capitalization require converting the letters i/j or u/v to uppercase or lowercase..." because, in fact, "uppercase or lowercase" aren't reciprocal here. It will never be the case that an uppercase J or U will be converted to lowercase, see footnote 26 in Appendix G, which reads "An uppercase J or U in the source signals a modern distribution, in which i and j are functioning as separate letters, as are u and v, requiring no special consideration while converting case." 

Proposed change: replace the standard phrase as follows...

Existing wording: If the rules for capitalization require converting the letters i/j or u/v to uppercase or lowercase.

New wording: If the rules for capitalization require converting the letters I or V to lowercase or i, j, u, or v to uppercase.

Discussion is open to anyone through DCRM-L for one week. BSC members will be asked to vote on the proposed change on December 14.

Thanks,

    EB.

--------------------------------------------------

Erin C. Blake, Ph.D.  |  Curator of Art & Special Collections  |  Folger Shakespeare Library  |  201 E. Capitol St. SE  | Washington, DC 20003-1004  |  office tel. (202) 675-0323  |  fax:  (202) 675-0328  | eblake at folger.edu  |  www.folger.edu

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