[DCRM-L] FW: [Marketing Mail] Re: ["EXLIBRIS-L"] Ligatus thesaurus [Was "Untrimmed Edges"]

[Deborah J. Leslie]

For those who don't studiously read ExLibris-L. This thesaurus has been a long time in preparation: http://www.arts.ac.uk/research/ual-research-centres/ligatus/

Deborah J. Leslie | Folger Shakespeare Library | djleslie at folger.edu | 202.675-0369 | 201 East Capitol St., SE, Washington, DC 20003 | www. folger.edu

From: Nicholas Pickwoad [mailto:npickwoad at paston.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, 08 May 2015 10:19
To: exlibris-l at list.indiana.edu
Subject: [Marketing Mail] Re: ["EXLIBRIS-L"] Ligatus thesaurus [Was "Untrimmed Edges"]

Dear Leslie,

I have now at last got news. The thesaurus will be open to all in the week leading up to a conference we are putting on in London with CERL on 23 June (the poster is about to go out). The accompanying volume, Coming to Terms: guidelines for the description of historical bindings (120,000 words and about 500 illustrations) is now with the designer and will be available later in the summer.

All the best

Nicholas




Professor Nicholas Pickwoad
Ligatus Research Centre
CCW Graduate School, University of the Arts London
16 John Islip Street
London SW1P 4JU

e-mail: npickwoad at paston.co.uk<mailto:npickwoad at paston.co.uk>


On 8 May 2015, at 15:12, "Deborah J. Leslie" <DJLeslie at FOLGER.edu<mailto:DJLeslie at FOLGER.edu>> wrote:


Nicholas,

Any word on when the Ligatus thesaurus will be available for general use?

Deborah J. Leslie | Folger Shakespeare Library | djleslie at folger.edu<mailto:djleslie at folger.edu> | 202.675-0369 | 201 East Capitol St., SE, Washington, DC 20003 | www. folger.edu<http://folger.edu>

-----Original Message-----
From: Nicholas Pickwoad [mailto:npickwoad at paston.co.uk<http://paston.co.uk>]
Sent: Friday, 08 May 2015 03:59
To: exlibris-l at list.indiana.edu<mailto:exlibris-l at list.indiana.edu>
Subject: [Marketing Mail] Re: ["EXLIBRIS-L"] "Untrimmed Edges"

Dear Andy Foster,

I wrote this last night but had not sent it off before I saw Terry's response. We are largely in agreement, except over the use of the word 'trimmed', as Anglophone binders, of whom I am one, use the word 'cut' for the substantial removal of the edges of the leaves across a whole bookblock, while 'trim' has a sense in English of a much lighter cut than is usually seen on most books. We will include 'trim' as an alternative term for 'cut', and the community at large will decide which it prefers. These differences in terminology between the practitioners and the users are not uncommon. For most binders, cutting is done in a 'cutting' or 'laying press'; there is no piece of equipment called a 'trimming press'.


My original message:

We have tried to sort this out for the Ligatus thesaurus as follows: As the treatment of the individual edges of any bookblock can be different, you always need to make clear whether you are describing all or only one or two of the edges. Deckle (not deckled) edges will, as you indicate, appear on the bookblock edges according to how the sheet of handmade paper is folded, and will, under normal circumstances, be present on all three outer edges only on folio format books, and on the fore- and tail edges of quartos, etc. The term 'rough edges' is a somewhat archaic form of 'deckle edges' (it was used in the eighteenth century), but all such edges are 'uncut edges'. The term 'rough cut' is rather different and means the same as  the term 'rough trimmed' as in rough trimmed edges' (defined in the Ligatus thesaurus as:  "Uneven edges in which leaves or groups of leaves were trimmed, often by hand with shears, either before the book was sewn or after to remove the oversized leaves which would otherwise have projected from the edge of the bookblock. A rough-trimmed edge is therefore very different from one that is 'cut solid' with a plough or draw knife (or, more recently, a guillotine). Edges of both sorts can be found on the same bookblock"). Although the terms  'cutting' and 'trimming' have been used to mean the same things (cutting solid with a plough, etc.), we are suggesting that only the term 'cutting' is used for this, and 'trimming' be reserved for 'rough trimming', in the hopes of keeping the two different processes distinct.

Bolts on the folded edges of leaves will be cut off by edge cutting (or indeed to some extent by rough trimming) and the textblock thus 'opened', but bolts can be 'opened' individually without cutting the edge of the bookblock, leaving any deckle edges intact.

Nicholas Pickwoad


On 7 May 2015, at 20:14, Milton & Hubble Books <andy at miltonandhubble.com<mailto:andy at miltonandhubble.com>> wrote:


Hello List:

I'm pondering the terms for describing edges in fine press books with hand made paper.

Should the term "Deckled Edges " or "Rough Edges"  be used only when such edges are present Head, Fore, and Tail - that is ALL EDGES?    What if such Rough Edges should remain on the sheet edge, but appear in the book together with trimmed edges - sometimes on the Head edge, sometimes on the Fore Edge, or sometimes on more than one edge, as folding would have it?

Should the term "Untrimmed Edges" be a safe catch-all phrase, encompassing all possibilities including unopened edges as well as these cases of scattered deckled edges?

Thank you for your kind assistance!

Andy Foster
Milton and Hubble Books
Pasadena, California


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