[DCRM-L] Question about rule 1B4 and Latin title

Fri Jan 7 12:03:45 MST 2022

Hi Jennifer and Laurence,

Thank you both for the assistance! It is much appreciated.

I hesitate to ask, but I found another oddity in this three volume set (all volumes were printed in the same year of 1539, at least!). My question is in regards to the signatures on several gatherings. In one volume, there are three gatherings using symbols other than letters or the other usual symbols to mark gatherings. I can find these letterforms/symbols in Appendix G of DCRMB, but I’m not sure how to note them in the signature statement.

I’ve taken pictures of the three symbols and they are attached. They appear to me to be the letterforms/symbols for the ampersand (&), and contractions for [con] and [rum]. Is that how I would note them in the signature statement?

If so, would that make the signature statement for those three gatherings to be: &⁸ [con]⁸ [rum]⁸

Or am I just totally wrong on that, and they represent something else? I tried looking through Gaskill, but didn’t see anything about this, although I could have missed it, of course.

Thank you all again!

Angela

Angela Jones
Head of Technical Services
Underwood Law Library, Dedman School of Law
Southern Methodist University
P.O. Box 750354
Dallas, TX 75275-0354
214-768-1827
arjones at smu.edu<mailto:arjones at smu.edu>

From: DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu> On Behalf Of Laurence Creider
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 2:22 PM
To: DCRM Users' Group <dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] Question about rule 1B4 and Latin title

[EXTERNAL SENDER]
Jennifer and Angela,

I think that Jennifer has nailed it (no surprise here!).  I would add that the " in qua .... is clearly other title information as a statement of contents.  The only thing I would add is that the user would be helped if there were some 246 fields considering the interpolated bracket and hyphen. I don't know whether a 246 field expanding the abbreviations in the title proper would be helpful.  I don't have the text of to hand. The realization that what is being described is a 3-volume manifestation has obvious implications for the extent of the item, and perhaps the imprint information (e.g. date) if the 3 volumes were published over a period of years.

Laurence S. Creider

Professor Emeritus

Archives and Special Collections

New Mexico State University Library

P.O. Box 30006

Las Cruces, NM  88003-8006

lcreider at nmsu.edu<mailto:lcreider at nmsu.edu>

________________________________
From: DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu>> on behalf of Jennifer MacDonald <jsmacdon at udel.edu<mailto:jsmacdon at udel.edu>>
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 11:08 AM
To: DCRM Users' Group <dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>>
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] Question about rule 1B4 and Latin title

WARNING: This email originated external to the NMSU email system. Do not click on links or open attachments unless you are sure the content is safe.

Hi Angela,

Sorry for asking about the running title, somehow I missed that you were referring to the top of the title pages, so I see my question was irrelevant!

Otherwise, I ask because it seems to me that the title proper is "Primum -[tertium] vol. Felini Sandei Ferrariensis: juriscon. facile principis" because I usually take the first nominative on a Latin title page to be the title proper.  The grammatically inseparable part is the genitive immediately following vol."; the relative positions of the genitive and the nominative are grammatically meaningless, so the same rule applies no matter where the genitive appears in the phrase. Titles comprising only the name of an author are not unheard of (see 1B3.3), so seeing moving from "Author" in nominative to "Volume of author" with "Volume" as the nominative and "Author" in genitive seems reasonable. I'm not sure that DCRMB 1B6 (Title proper with supplementary or section designation or title) applies here, since the author's name is such a prominent part of the phrase, although others may disagree.

Thanks,

Jennifer

On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 12:03 PM Jones, Angela <arjones at mail.smu.edu<mailto:arjones at mail.smu.edu>> wrote:

Hi Jennifer,

I am asking if the volume designations (Primum [-tertium] vol.) need to be included as part of the title proper. The running titles aren’t any help – they only have the title of the section.

Angela

From: DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu>> On Behalf Of Jennifer MacDonald
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 9:53 AM
To: DCRM Users' Group <dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>>
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] Question about rule 1B4 and Latin title

[EXTERNAL SENDER]

Angela, are these the words you are asking about, or the words directly following "vol."? How do the running titles read?

Thanks,

Jennifer

On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 10:26 AM Jones, Angela <arjones at mail.smu.edu<mailto:arjones at mail.smu.edu>> wrote:

Thank you so much! That is very helpful.  I will definitely add the suggested title added entries.

Thank you again,

Angela

From: DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu>> On Behalf Of Goojer, F.H. de (Frits)
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 9:06 AM
To: 'DCRM Users' Group' <dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>>
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] Question about rule 1B4 and Latin title

[EXTERNAL SENDER]

Dear Mrs. Jones,

Happy New Year to you as well!

In my opinion this is not a “grammatically inseparable designation”. If so, I would expect: Primum vol. Felini Sandei Ferrariensis: juriscon. facile principis: in quinque libros Decretalium commentariorum eruditissimorum: jam tandem maximis sudoribus vigiliisque emunctissime excusorum:

So a genitive case and not a nominative case.

However it might be recommended to add a variant title beginning with: Vol. primum-[tertium] and an other starting with: In quinque libros Decretalium commentaria eruditissima …

Kind regards,

Frits de Goojer, University Library Utrecht, Netherlands, EU

Drs F.H. de Goojer | Informatie-/collectiespecialist: catalogiseerder handschriften en oude drukken; metadataspecialist | Information specialist early printed books and manuscripts | Afdeling Metadata & Acquisitie | Sector Collectie Diensten | Universiteitsbibliotheek Utrecht | Heidelberglaan 3, 3584 CS Utrecht | kamer 5.20 | Postbus 80124, 3508 TC Utrecht | tel. 06 41 60 25 14 | f.h.degoojer at uu.nl<mailto:f.h.degoojer at uu.nl> | www.uu.nl/bibliotheek<https://secure-web.cisco.com/1-t743at0ppDumWIFM-1FdojtungRknLrumehCD82wmIXwVmvNzS9BnuJ4633CoyibAEk7nhlml-orFfG903vCdj7pTv1nm-fiiR2UZO7EpOullqbXKeN8NCJAVS7lKbP64Sw9M_ZMpjmptF3EHlXWV8n1ulCzvrL4SNi7nPdljBLM-_zt_p3_KmMbGaLUgKCoy7056HyrJ-vsUADTATmfPGV65xSssjTEQD_yaldtyT2cJKJpVrXLxCUbQCGhbA5I5TBz4arnJc0F1miEdJDaayyjvxVSQrdQfn4Xj8u35Q/https%3A%2F%2Fnam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.uu.nl%252Fbibliotheek%26data%3D04%257C01%257Clcreider%2540nmsu.edu%257Cc7810bcf054243dc6c9608d9d13fb060%257Ca3ec87a89fb84158ba8ff11bace1ebaa%257C1%257C0%257C637770893745702755%257CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C3000%26sdata%3DL777cCcbDJjM80btlo%252B90YAwC%252F%252FfXYzcJfop5GyxPsI%253D%26reserved%3D0>

From: DCRM-L <dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu>> On Behalf Of Jones, Angela
Sent: donderdag 6 januari 2022 15:37
To: DCRM Users' Group <dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>>
Subject: [DCRM-L] Question about rule 1B4 and Latin title

Hello, and Happy New Year!

I am cataloging a multi-volume book in Latin, with the volume numbering immediately preceding the title. The title page for the first volume reads: Primum vol. Felini Sandei …, and each title page in the set starts with the volume designation at the top of the page, in similar fashion. A picture of the volume 1 title page is attached.

My question is in regards to rule 1B4, and is mostly related to my skimpy knowledge of Latin. Would this be considered a “grammatically inseparable designation”, as defined by that rule? I know that would be the case if the volume designation appeared at the end of the title, or somewhere within the title, and have seen many examples of those situations. But this is the first time I have run into a volume designation at the head of the title. And, since I have rather limited knowledge of the grammar structure of Latin, I thought I would ask the list.

I did find the title in the USTC catalogue, and it does include the volume designators as part of the title. See https://www.ustc.ac.uk/editions/854472<https://secure-web.cisco.com/1DskDbRI_KVagRHyaURAVtQ8mgNRoiCFi78rxkD32q_V0R9lskXZsoCzq01jWbCrAGKC-o3_XkQX71XLw48By0AJf_ImixjGOz57t3Qg381O6glzXPO9JQDpD7U_dNaLRERMYFJBiuO_OZ4HswV9iynd2XsntZIQykPICm-0NfDZQyQTmBoJC0RMreDE-XUrX0JDWO_qIVyaFyjtEQnisXMqG642RL8lWKi0nrcxb3_leGhzJRAqTFjLz0sDui9pd4h3_Erb5yLOU8kBiEA9x4JIQHpHacSCijTtBWWWVzp4/https%3A%2F%2Fnam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.ustc.ac.uk%252Feditions%252F854472%26data%3D04%257C01%257Clcreider%2540nmsu.edu%257Cc7810bcf054243dc6c9608d9d13fb060%257Ca3ec87a89fb84158ba8ff11bace1ebaa%257C1%257C0%257C637770893745702755%257CUnknown%257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%253D%257C3000%26sdata%3Di0x0VCvfFtvT7uJyzdiPtXl44nQ0p0hmQnDJepyWZIU%253D%26reserved%3D0>.

Thank you in advance for any help!

Angela

Angela Jones

Head of Technical Services

Underwood Law Library, Dedman School of Law

Southern Methodist University

P.O. Box 750354

Dallas, TX 75275-0354

214-768-1827

arjones at smu.edu<mailto:arjones at smu.edu>

--

Jennifer MacDonald MA, PhD, MSLIS (she/her/hers)

Associate Librarian and Coordinator, Special Collections Cataloging Unit

Cataloging and Metadata Department

University of Delaware

(302) 831-1512

--
[University of Delaware]

Jennifer MacDonald MA, PhD, MSLIS (she/her/hers)

Associate Librarian and Coordinator, Special Collections Cataloging Unit

Cataloging and Metadata Department

University of Delaware
(302) 831-1512

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