[DCRM-L] Recording symbols
Manon Theroux
manon.theroux at yale.edu
Mon Dec 4 16:26:30 MST 2006
The RBMS thesaurus "Provenance Evidence" uses the
term "Fists" - sounds like it needs a UF
reference from "Manicules". Thanks for the citation, Karen!
Maybe "Type Evidence" needs the term as well,
since the marks can occur in either print or manuscript form.
Glad you found a suitable Spanish equivalent,
Larry; I agree with you that "esta senal" doesn't make much sense on its own.
-Manon
At 06:11 PM 12/4/2006, Deborah J. Leslie wrote:
>Is this Bill Sherman's article? He and I had a
>chat after his paper had been submitted. We both
>regretted that he and I hadn't spoken about the
>terminology *before* he'd finished the article.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu
>[mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Laurence Creider
>Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:53 PM
>To: DCRM Revision Group List
>Cc: manon.theroux at yale.edu
>Subject: RE: [DCRM-L] Recording symbols
>
>
>Karen,
> Sounds interesting; I'll try to get the book on ILL. The word
>used in the TOC of Owners, annotators ... "Towards a history of the
>manicule," is interesting in that our local expert on colonial Mexican
>documents says the word in Spanish is manecilla. "Manecilla" is what I
>ended up using in the OCLC record. Thank you.
> Larry Creider
>
>Laurence S. Creider, Ph.D., M.S.L.S.
>Head, General Cataloging Unit
>New Mexico State University
>Las Cruces, NM 88003
>Work: 505-646-4707
>Fax: 505-646-7477
>lcreider at lib.nmsu.edu
>
>
>On Mon, 4 Dec 2006 Karen.Attar at london.ac.uk wrote:
>
> > If you are interested, there is an overview
> of English terminology for "fist" in an essay
> in Owners, annotators and the signs of reading,
> edited by Robin Myers, Michael Harris and Giles
> Mandelbrote (London and New Castle, Del., 2005).
> >
> > Karen
> >
> > Dr Karen Attar
> > Rare Books Librarian
> > Senate House Library
> > University of London
> > Senate House
> > Malet Street
> > London
> > WC1E 7HU
> > Tel. 020 7862 8477
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu
> [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Laurence Creider
> > Sent: 30 November 2006 22:36
> > To: Manon Theroux
> > Cc: DCRM Revision Group List
> > Subject: RE: [DCRM-L] Recording symbols
> >
> > Manon,
> > Thank you for pointing me in the right
> direction. I'm not sure whether the Spanish
> word for "fist" (puno with a tilde) is what I
> want, but I will check. I do wonder about an
> example for DCRB, however. In this case, the
> symbol does seem pretty "integral." I don't
> know that "esta senal" makes much sense without a referent for "esta."
> > Larry Creider
> >
> > On Thu, 30 Nov 2006,
> > Manon Theroux wrote:
> >
> >> Larry,
> >>
> >> LCRI 1.0E goes into this issue in greater detail. I've copied relevant
> >> bits of the LCRI below, though you might want to read through the
> >> whole thing (which has a lot of examples). Whether or not to
> >> transcribe the symbol depends on whether or not the symbol is judged
> >> to be an integral part of the title. If you do want to transcribe, you
> >> use the language of the title. If you don't know how to express the
> >> symbol in the language of the title, you use English.
> >>
> >> Like Deborah, "fist" is what came to mind for me (in English). Not
> >> sure of the Spanish equivalent.
> >>
> >> -Manon
> >>
> >> ======================
> >>
> >> Signs and Symbols
> >>
> >> The objective in treating signs and symbols not represented in the
> >> character set is to render or convey the intention without undue time
> >> and effort and with a minimum of interpolation, using one of the
> >> techniques described in this section. Note that a minimum of
> >> interpolation is wanted because those
> searching the machine catalog cannot very often be expected to "second-guess"
> >> the cataloger in this respect, i.e., users will normally formulate
> >> search queries that necessarily do not take interpolations into
> >> account. As judged appropriate, use notes to explain and added entries
> >> to provide additional access; the examples
> below are illustrative, not prescriptive.
> >>
> >> 1) If the symbol is judged not to be an integral or essential part of
> >> the title, do not intervene in the transcription. Instead, omit the
> >> symbol; explain its presence in a note if it is judged worth mentioning.
> >>
> >> transcription: 245 10 $a "W" today! Tomorrow?
> >> (On the title page the traditional female
> symbol appears under the letter "W"
> >> but the preface makes it clear that the symbol is not intended to form
> >> part of the title and gives the full title) suggested note: 500 ## $a
> >> On t.p. the symbol for female appears under the letter "W"
> >> added entry: 246 30 $a Women today! Tomorrow?
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >> 4) Substitute in the language of the context the word, phrase, etc.,
> >> that is the obvious spoken/written equivalent (if unknown in the
> >> language of the context, use English); bracket the interpolated
> >> equivalent. If the element in the source is not preceded or followed
> >> by a space, in general precede or follow the bracketed interpolation
> >> by a space unless the preceding or following character in the source
> >> is itself also a separator or unless the use
> of a space would create an unintended result for searching.
> >>
> >> transcription: 245 10 $a I [love] a piano suggested note: 500 ## $a On
> >> t.p. "[love]" appears as a heart
> >>
> >> Exception 1: Do not transcribe characters that indicate birth (e.g.,
> >> an
> >> asterisk) or death (e.g., a dagger) even if such characters are in the
> >> character set. Do not use a mark of omission; instead, explain the
> >> omission in a note.
> >>
> >> Exception 2: Ignore symbols indicating trademark (registered or
> >> otherwise), patent, etc. These include a superscript or subscript "R"
> >> enclosed in a circle (®) (ignore although included in the character
> >> set) and the superscript or subscript letters "TM" ((tm)). Do not explain
> >> their presence in a note. (Ignore such symbols also when they appear
> >> with elements used in
> >> headings.)
> >>
> >> If the spoken/written equivalent is not obvious or if there is doubt
> >> that it is obvious or if it is unknown, give an explanation or a
> >> description in the language of the context (if unknown in the language
> >> of the context, use English).
> >>
> >> If a title consists solely of a sign or symbol or one or more marks of
> >> punctuation, provide an equivalent in all cases, even if the
> >> particular symbol is itself in the character set.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> At 12:23 PM 11/30/2006, Deborah J. Leslie wrote:
> >>> Is it a fist?
> >>>
> >>> We don't transcribe or describe non-textual symbols such as paragraph
> >>> marks, rules, and the like. Why would we interpolate a description of
> >>> a fist, if that is what it is?
> >>>
> >>> Deborah J. Leslie, M.A., M.L.S.
> >>> Head of CatalogingFolger Shakespeare Library
> >>> 201 East Capitol St., S.E.
> >>> Washington, DC 20003
> >>> 202.675-0369
> >>> djleslie at folger.edu
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>>
> >>> From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu on behalf of Laurence Creider
> >>> Sent: Thu 2006-11-30 12:05
> >>> To: DCRM Revision Group List
> >>> Subject: [DCRM-L] Recording symbols
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Folks,
> >>> I am currently cataloging a work with a title and statement
> >>> of responsibility that says:
> >>> Tiernos afectos de amor, temor, humildad, y confianza ?h [microform]
> >>> : ?b con que clama en dulces soliloquios una alma, que arrepentida
> >>> llora, y ansiosa suspira por su verdadero bien / ?c dispuestos en
> >>> decimas, las cincuenta y tres asignadas con esta sen~al [] por el
> >>> Lic. D. Diego Calderon ... y las restantes por el Rdo. P. predicador
> >>> Fr. Francisco de las Llagas, hijo de la santa provincia de San Diego
> >>> de la Serafica Descalzes de Nro^. P. San Francisco ...
> >>>
> >>> Following the word senal is a small hand with the bottom figure extended.
> >>> Other records for this title go straight from senal to por with no
> >>> indication of an omission. My reading of DCRB 0F and DCRM(B) 0G1.2
> >>> is that I should provide a cataloger's
> description of the hand in brackets.
> >>>
> >>> There is a common term for this symbol; can anyone tell me what it is?
> >>>
> >>> Now the point that makes all this relevant to this list is that
> >>> DCRM(B)
> >>> 0F1.2 says to give interpolations into the title area in the language
> >>> of the publication. Does this mean that the cataloger's description
> >>> should be in Spanish? Or not? In either
> case, an example might be a good idea.
> >>>
> >>> If the description should be in Spanish, any suggestions on what the
> >>> terminology should be?
> >>>
> >>> Thank you.
> >>>
> >>> In puzzlement,
> >>> Larry Creider
> >>>
> >>> Laurence S. Creider, Ph.D., M.S.L.S.
> >>> Head, General Cataloging Unit
> >>> New Mexico State University
> >>> Las Cruces, NM 88003
> >>> Work: 505-646-4707
> >>> Fax: 505-646-7477
> >>> lcreider at lib.nmsu.edu
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________
> >>
> >> Manon Théroux
> >> Authority Control Librarian
> >> Catalog Department
> >> Yale University Library
> >> P.O. Box 208240
> >> New Haven, CT 06520-8240
> >>
> >> 203-432-8376 (tel)
> >> 203-432-7231 (fax)
> >> manon.theroux at yale.edu
>
>Laurence S. Creider, Ph.D., M.S.L.S.
>Head, General Cataloging Unit
>New Mexico State University
>Las Cruces, NM 88003
>Work: 505-646-4707
>Fax: 505-646-7477
>lcreider at lib.nmsu.edu
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