[DCRM-L] ESTC and the revision of SCF

Wed Sep 10 17:41:03 MDT 2008

Good idea! It would be great if the OCLC master record for as many of these as possible had the citation form embedded in it. And as new ones came up if the first person to use it in a 510 added a 524 to the master record for the bibliography the rest of us who come along later could use the same form in our records. I think it would greatly enhance standardization of these forms.

In case people want to do this, I urge the authors of the new Standard Citations to get a code for Standard Citations listed for subfield 2 of 524 ("source of schema used") (see http://www.loc.gov/marc/relators/relaothr.html#rela524b). Is the group working on this thinking of doing that? I hope you will. The field would look something like

524    Cioranescu, A.  18. s. $2 scf [or whatever the code winds up being]

That way if there were some other citation form wanted for the bibliography in addition to Standard Citations (maybe this is some sort of medical bibliography and the NLM recommended format for bibliographic citation is also wanted) the field could be repeated with whatever citations styles are wanted.

By the way, I notice none of the codes listed at http://www.loc.gov/marc/relators/relaothr.html#rela524b are for archival citation styles, so the field is clearly being used beyond the archival community.

Bob

Robert L. Maxwell
Head, Special Collections and Metadata Catalog Dept.
6728 Harold B. Lee Library
Brigham Young University
Provo, UT 84602
(801)422-5568

-----Original Message-----
From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Schneider, Nina
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 5:12 PM
To: ElizRob at alum.emory.edu; DCRM Revision Group List
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] ESTC and the revision of SCF

This also reminds me that Erin Blake of the Folger Library suggested (or maybe it was a question ... this was a few years ago at an ALA meeting) including a 524 note (Preferred Citation of Described Materials) in the bib record of standard reference sources, especially titles in Standard Citation Forms. For example: Alexandre Cioranescu's Bibiographie de la litterature francaise du dix-hititeme siecle would look like this:

100 1_ Cioranescu, Alexandre
245 10 Bibliographie de la littérature française du dix-huitième siècle ...
524    Cioranescu, A.  18. s.

I know that the 524 is meant for manuscript materials/archival collections, but it seems to me that this is an elegant solution, especially if the 524 is searchable.

+-------
Nina Schneider
Head Cataloger
William Andrews Clark Memorial Library
2520 Cimarron Street
Los Angeles, CA  90018

323-731-8529
nschneider at humnet.ucla.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Robinson
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 2:57 PM
To: DCRM Revision Group List
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] ESTC and the revision of SCF

I meant to also respond to Nina's suggestion for a 510$u for URL links. It is actually MARBI that would approve such, although LC always has an opinion on all MARBI proposals (so would definitely chime in).

Nina's suggestion of a subfield for URL info leads me to wonder if we might also want to consider a subfield for these acronyms we still want to keep and input along with the full title. Richard's last examples could be (making up a subfield):

510 4_ $z ESTC $a (English short title catalogue) 510 4_ $z ISTC $a (Incunabula short-title catalogue)

Or maybe repeat the subfield $a (not possible now):

510 4_ $a ESTC $a (English short title catalogue) 510 4_ $a ISTC $a (Incunabula short-title catalogue)

That might be exceedingly valuable from an indexing and/or maintenance POV.

We can consider various punctuation too (doesn't have to be parentheses). E.g.:

510 4_ $a ESTC: $a English short title catalogue 510 4_ $a ISTC: $a Incunabula short-title catalogue

Whatever we think will display to the public in an intelligible manner.

Elizabeth A. Robinson
Team Leader
Rare Book Cataloging Team
Special Materials Cataloging Division
Library of Congress
101 Independence Avenue SE, mailstop 4376 Washington, DC 20540-4376
(202)707-3408 (work)
(202)707-2453 (fax)
erob at loc.gov (email)

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are strictly my own and not necessarily those of the Library

--- On Wed, 9/10/08, Schneider, Nina <nschneider at humnet.ucla.edu> wrote:

> From: Schneider, Nina <nschneider at humnet.ucla.edu>
> Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] ESTC and the revision of SCF
> To: "DCRM Revision Group List" <dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>
> Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 11:27 AM
> Richard just gave me an idea:
>
> Why couldn't we include a URL to those citations that
> are online? I'm
> sure we could petition LC to include subfield u (or another
> appropriate
> subfield) in a 510, so that folks who don't know what
> ESTC, Wing, etc.
> could just hit the link to take them to the resource.
>
> Of course, the problem is that many of these reference
> sources are not
> online, but we could take advantage of the ones that are.
>
> Nina
>
> +-------
> Nina Schneider
> Head Cataloger
> William Andrews Clark Memorial Library
> 2520 Cimarron Street
> Los Angeles, CA  90018
>
> 323-731-8529
> nschneider at humnet.ucla.edu
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu
> [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On
> Behalf Of Noble, Richard
> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 7:10 AM
> To: rbrandt at library.berkeley.edu; DCRM Revision Group List
> Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] ESTC and the revision of SCF
>
> In an ideal world, the 510 field would function as in ISTC,
> with its
> choice of expanded or condensed references to accommodate
> those in the
> know and those not--and those who need a reminder. SCF
> would be the
> underlying public and technical reference database, not
> just another
> proprietary professional grimoire.
>
> The market we address necessarily includes (as Donald
> Farren rather ...
> sternly reminded us) users who may have reason to consult
> resources
> outside fields in which they are expert at the acronymic
> level. In most
> cases it is possible to provide an author keyword or two
> and enough of
> the title (without abbreviations and over-concern about
> length) to
> indicate the nature of the reference and to serve as the
> basis for a
> reasonably precise catalog/database search.
> "Adams" and "Evans" and
> "Sabin" really must give way to something a bit
> more self-explanatory
> and less likely to produce about 112,000,000 Google hits
> (result from
> search on "evans"). These traditional citations
> may unite the
> cognoscenti who receive the posher sale catalogs, but they
> separate us
> even from our colleagues the next desk over.
>
> In such cases as ESTC or ISTC, surely we can extend this
> principle to
> formulate the reference as, e.g. "English short title
> catalogue (ESTC)"
> or "Incunabula short-title catalogue (ISTC)",
> both of which phrases I
> just cut, pasted, and lower-cased from those websites. (And
> since it's
> possible in some such cases, we might encourage the use of
> the 856 field
> or other linking device(s) to take users to the database,
> or even the
> particular entry.)
>
> There will be work involved in revising catalog records,
> though I
> suspect that many (most?) institutions that make use of
> such references
> can globally update phrases in specific fields (MARC hath
> yet its uses).
> I do believe that it would be worth the effort, if only to
> preserve a
> little longer our ability to provide this information at
> all, in the
> face of those who urge us to "get over ourselves"
> and, I guess, throw
> over our more educated users.
>
> RICHARD NOBLE : RARE BOOKS CATALOGER : JOHN HAY LIBRARY :
> BROWN
> UNIVERSITY PROVIDENCE, RI 02912 : 401-863-1187/FAX 863-2093
> :
> RICHARD_NOBLE at BROWN.EDU