[DCRM-L] FW: Correction Re: DPC: Wording of i/j u/v conversion inDCRM

[Noble, Richard]

Is it clear that what you're discussing is the *default* rules? If it's
possible to establish the printer's usage quickly and certainly, then, in
changing case, we follow that usage for the target case. There are various
gothic and swash I's that look like J, where the printer might well use
initial i in lower case. The main principle is to determine, for each
character in each of its possible positions, whether one is looking at
alternate graphic representation of the same "orthographic entity" (pedantic
humor alert...) or orthographically distinct characters. (This can get
weird: some C17 German printers followed pronunciation in e.g. "qvam",
"...qve" in modern usage of u/v.)

The whole thing is wretchedly artificial, in any case. It conveys no
information that we would normally concern ourselves with--we don't normally
include typography notes on details of the printer's alphabet; and it can
obscure information that transcription is otherwise intended to convey,
since the actual character cannot always be unambiguously inferred from the
transcription, absent such a note. This is not fully compensated by 246s for
the title proper alone.

RICHARD NOBLE : RARE BOOKS CATALOGER : JOHN HAY LIBRARY : BROWN UNIVERSITY
PROVIDENCE, RI 02912 : 401-863-1187/FAX 863-3384 : RICHARD_NOBLE at BROWN.EDU


On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 9:52 AM, Erin Blake <EBlake at folger.edu> wrote:

>  Thinking about this some more (and with apologies to Deborah, since she’s
> not in her office, and I can’t talk with her in person first) I’m back to
> thinking the existing wording *isn’t* fine: "If the rules for
> capitalization require converting the letters *i/j* or *u/v* to uppercase
> or lowercase, follow the pattern of usage in the text” is technically
> correct, but misleading. Yes, follow the pattern of use: if *J* needs to
> be converted to lowercase, the pattern of use happens to always be *J* > *
> j* so it’s very easy to determine. But it’s also true that patterns of use
> show *A* > *a*, *B* > *b*, and so on. Mentioning *J* and *U* at all, when
> there’s nothing special about them, is confusing.
>
>
>
> “If the rules for capitalization require converting the letters *I* or *V*to lowercase, or
> *i*, *j*, *u*, or *v* to uppercase, follow the pattern of usage in the
> text” is also correct, but clearer. (Especially with the comma added, as
> Margaret Nichols just pointed out).
>
>
>
> Additional possibility: expand the sentence to clarify that conversion of
> case will sometimes, but not always, involve changing the graph. That’s the
> point of DCRM(B) 0G2.2, but it doesn’t explicitly say so. In other words,
> change it to: “If the rules for capitalization require converting the
> letters *I* or *V* to lowercase, or *i*, *j*, *u*, or *v* to uppercase,
> follow the pattern of usage in the text to determine which graph to use.”
>
>
>
>     EB.
>
>
>
> *From:* dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] *On
> Behalf Of *Deborah J. Leslie
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 07, 2010 4:18 PM
> *To:* DCRM Revision Group List
> *Subject:* [DCRM-L] FW: Correction Re: DPC: Wording of i/j u/v conversion
> inDCRM
>
>
>
> Erin and I just spoke about this. The existing wording is actually just
> fine; some of the confusion in this instance appears to arise the fact that
> there are two types of conversion going on: converting case (e.g., I to i),
> and converting graph while converting case (i.e., V to u).
>
>
>
> Our solution: Add the note that uppercase J or U signals a modern
> distribution in 0G2, to let people know at that point that they don't need
> to look for usage in the text for that particular letter. (Keep in mind that
> distinction of the letter J as its own letter, and of U as its own letter,
> didn't necessarily happen at the same time.) That's probably enough, but if
> people want even more guidance, add to the table "Uppercase letter to be
> converted" in Appendix G: J à j and U à u
>
> _________________________
> Deborah J. Leslie, M.A., M.L.S.
> RBMS past chair 2010-2011 | Head of Cataloging, Folger Shakespeare Library
> 201 East Capitol St., S.E. | Washington, D.C. 20003 | 202.675-0369
> djleslie at folger.edu | http://www.folger.edu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] *On
> Behalf Of *Erin Blake
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 07 December, 2010 15:48
> *To:* dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu
> *Subject:* [DCRM-L] DPC: Wording of i/j u/v conversion in DCRM
>
>
>
> Last DPC of the season, if we're sticking to one a week: As some of you
> know, this came up at the BSC meeting at Annual, when it became clear that
> there was confusion about the phrase "If the rules for capitalization
> require converting the letters i/j or u/v to uppercase or lowercase..."
> because, in fact, "uppercase or lowercase" aren't reciprocal here. It will
> never be the case that an uppercase *J* or *U* will be converted to
> lowercase, see footnote 26 in Appendix G, which reads "An uppercase* J* or
> *U* in the source signals a modern distribution, in which *i* and* j* are
> functioning as separate letters, as are *u* and *v*, requiring no special
> consideration while converting case."
>
>
>
> Proposed change: replace the standard phrase as follows...
>
> Existing wording: If the rules for capitalization require converting the
> letters i/j or u/v to uppercase or lowercase.
>
> New wording: If the rules for capitalization require converting the lettersIor
> V to lowercase or i, j, u, or v to uppercase.
>
>
>
> Discussion is open to anyone through DCRM-L for one week. BSC members will
> be asked to vote on the proposed change on December 14.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
>     EB.
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> Erin C. Blake, Ph.D.  |  Curator of Art & Special Collections  |  Folger
> Shakespeare Library  |  201 E. Capitol St. SE  | Washington, DC 20003-1004
> |  office tel. (202) 675-0323  |  fax:  (202) 675-0328  |
> eblake at folger.edu  |  www.folger.edu
>
>
>
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