[DCRM-L] FW: Correction Re: DPC: Wording of i/j u/v conversion in DCRM

[Lenore Rouse]

  Bob I'm with you on this one. Perhaps you'd also like to weigh in on 
graph's cousin, the "brevigraph" which occasioned the same perplexity 
for me. I asked every paleographer I could find and not one of them knew 
the term.  It's in the glossary for G but I think it is also jargon 
which is a source of unnecessary confusion as well.
Lenore

On 12/8/2010 11:38 AM, Robert Maxwell wrote:
> I think using terms like "... to determine which graph to use" is going to introduce unnecessary confusion here. Graph? Yes, I do understand what Deborah means because I was in on all the conversations but most readers and users of DCRM weren't. The usual usage of the word "graph" means a diagram. I'm fairly well educated, but I've never heard the word "graph" used in the sense it's used here outside the context of DCRM discussions; so if I were coming to this text without all this background I'd say "graph? What graph?" Besides, it's adding unnecessary wording to the rule. "If the rules for capitalization require converting the letters I or V to lowercase, or i, j, u, or v to uppercase, follow the pattern of usage in the text" is sufficient. Or the original text is also fine, in my opinion. Or if you must use "graph" in the rule, define it in the glossary.
>
> Bob
>
> Robert L. Maxwell
> Head, Special Collections and Formats Catalog Dept.
> 6728 Harold B. Lee Library
> Brigham Young University
> Provo, UT 84602
> (801)422-5568
>
> From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Deborah J. Leslie
> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 9:21 AM
> To: DCRM Revision Group List
> Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] FW: Correction Re: DPC: Wording of i/j u/v conversion in DCRM
>
> Sounds good. Can you do a better-and-after textual comparison?
>
> From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Erin Blake
> Sent: Wednesday, 08 December, 2010 09:53
> To: DCRM Revision Group List
> Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] FW: Correction Re: DPC: Wording of i/j u/v conversioninDCRM
>
> Thinking about this some more (and with apologies to Deborah, since she's not in her office, and I can't talk with her in person first) I'm back to thinking the existing wording isn't fine: "If the rules for capitalization require converting the letters i/j or u/v to uppercase or lowercase, follow the pattern of usage in the text" is technically correct, but misleading. Yes, follow the pattern of use: if J needs to be converted to lowercase, the pattern of use happens to always be J>  j so it's very easy to determine. But it's also true that patterns of use show A>  a, B>  b, and so on. Mentioning J and U at all, when there's nothing special about them, is confusing.
>
> "If the rules for capitalization require converting the letters I or V to lowercase, or i, j, u, or v to uppercase, follow the pattern of usage in the text" is also correct, but clearer. (Especially with the comma added, as Margaret Nichols just pointed out).
>
> Additional possibility: expand the sentence to clarify that conversion of case will sometimes, but not always, involve changing the graph. That's the point of DCRM(B) 0G2.2, but it doesn't explicitly say so. In other words, change it to: "If the rules for capitalization require converting the letters I or V to lowercase, or i, j, u, or v to uppercase, follow the pattern of usage in the text to determine which graph to use."
>
>      EB.
>
> From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Deborah J. Leslie
> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 4:18 PM
> To: DCRM Revision Group List
> Subject: [DCRM-L] FW: Correction Re: DPC: Wording of i/j u/v conversion inDCRM
>
> Erin and I just spoke about this. The existing wording is actually just fine; some of the confusion in this instance appears to arise the fact that there are two types of conversion going on: converting case (e.g., I to i), and converting graph while converting case (i.e., V to u).
>
> Our solution: Add the note that uppercase J or U signals a modern distribution in 0G2, to let people know at that point that they don't need to look for usage in the text for that particular letter. (Keep in mind that distinction of the letter J as its own letter, and of U as its own letter, didn't necessarily happen at the same time.) That's probably enough, but if people want even more guidance, add to the table "Uppercase letter to be converted" in Appendix G: J -->  j and U -->  u
> _________________________
> Deborah J. Leslie, M.A., M.L.S.
> RBMS past chair 2010-2011 | Head of Cataloging, Folger Shakespeare Library
> 201 East Capitol St., S.E. | Washington, D.C. 20003 | 202.675-0369
> djleslie at folger.edu | http://www.folger.edu<http://www.folger.edu/>
>
>
>
> From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Erin Blake
> Sent: Tuesday, 07 December, 2010 15:48
> To: dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu
> Subject: [DCRM-L] DPC: Wording of i/j u/v conversion in DCRM
>
> Last DPC of the season, if we're sticking to one a week: As some of you know, this came up at the BSC meeting at Annual, when it became clear that there was confusion about the phrase "If the rules for capitalization require converting the letters i/j or u/v to uppercase or lowercase..." because, in fact, "uppercase or lowercase" aren't reciprocal here. It will never be the case that an uppercase J or U will be converted to lowercase, see footnote 26 in Appendix G, which reads "An uppercase J or U in the source signals a modern distribution, in which i and j are functioning as separate letters, as are u and v, requiring no special consideration while converting case."
>
> Proposed change: replace the standard phrase as follows...
> Existing wording: If the rules for capitalization require converting the letters i/j or u/v to uppercase or lowercase.
> New wording: If the rules for capitalization require converting the letters I or V to lowercase or i, j, u, or v to uppercase.
>
> Discussion is open to anyone through DCRM-L for one week. BSC members will be asked to vote on the proposed change on December 14.
>
> Thanks,
>
>      EB.
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> Erin C. Blake, Ph.D.  |  Curator of Art&  Special Collections  |  Folger Shakespeare Library  |  201 E. Capitol St. SE  | Washington, DC 20003-1004  |  office tel. (202) 675-0323  |  fax:  (202) 675-0328  | eblake at folger.edu  |  www.folger.edu
>
>

-- 
Lenore M. Rouse
Curator, Rare Books&  Special Collections
The Catholic University of America
Room 214, Mullen Library
620 Michigan Avenue N.E.
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PHONE: 202 319-5090
E-MAIL: rouse at cua.edu