[DCRM-L] Question on DCRM(B) 4B4 supplying fuller place names.

[Hillyard, Brian]

Sorry, that should read "that abbreviations do not as a matter of course get expanded"

Brian



-----Original Message-----
From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu on behalf of Hillyard, Brian
Sent: Tue 18/01/2011 6:29 PM
To: DCRM Revision Group List
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] Question on DCRM(B) 4B4 supplying fuller place names.
 


Yes.  I've been looking back at my files from the 2003 Yale DCRM conference (happy memories!) and its aftermath.  I see that in early drafts of parts of DCRM(B) I provided an example of a title transcription that included abbreviations that I thought should be left as abbreviations and not need to be expanded, and there was more said about abbreviations.  However, looking at what is now 0G8 Abbreviations and contractions, I see that 0G8.1 gives an instruction not to abbreviate, when transcribing, any words not abbreviated in the source, but that the remainder of 0G8 (i.e. 0G8.2) has nothing at all to say about abbreviation; nor does the corresponding part of Appendix F.  So what we seem to have ended up with in DCRM(B) -- whether fully intended or not -- is the view that abbreviations do not as a matter of course get transcribed, and in this case Norimb. would just be transcribed as Norimb. except that in this particular case we probably would want to add something for identification and that something would be [i.e. Nuremberg], as had been said below.

I think that 0G8 as it stands is a little odd: the "contractions" part of it is about transcribing contractions, but the "abbreviations" part of it isn't really about transcribing abbreviations but belongs more to 0G1.

Best wishes

Brian
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Dr Brian Hillyard
Rare Book Collections Manager
National Library of Scotland
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-----Original Message-----
From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Daryl Green
Sent: 18 January 2011 09:16
To: DCRM Revision Group List
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] Question on DCRM(B) 4B4 supplying fuller place names.

I would agree with Manon in this case. Instead of supplying a Latin construction (i.e. expecting a cataloguer to spend time constructing a locative or genitive noun) it is perhaps better to leave the place of publication as it appears in the imprint of the item and supply the modern name in brackets.  This, of course, would be further traced in a 752 field for hierarchical place names.

Daryl Green
Rare Books Cataloguer
Department of Special Collections
University of St. Andrews Library
North Street
St Andrews
KY16 9TR
Scotland

Tel: 01334 462292

-----Original Message-----
From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Manon Theroux
Sent: 17 January 2011 20:14
To: DCRM Revision Group List
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] Question on DCRM(B) 4B4 supplying fuller place names.

Lenore,

Personally, I think 4B4 allows for a construction such as "Norimb[ergae]". It does supply the remainder of the name in square brackets, which is all that one of the 2 options in the rule requires.
And it does so in the form that the printer presumably would have used if spelling out the name to begin with. But, as you said, it would be asking a lot of catalogers to know what exactly to supply and it might hamper keyword searching in many systems.

I don't recall if the DCRM(B) editors discussed this particular issue.
If we did, we must have decided to leave it to cataloger's judgment. I do remember a somewhat similar discussion of 4C1.4 in which it was decided to use the example "Printed for W.W. [i.e. William Welby]"
rather than "Printed for W[illiam] W[elby]" and to make the rule say "If the ... name can be identified, supply it in square brackets after the initials" (avoiding DCRB's "filling in" language).

If supplying a fuller form is considered necessary for identification, would this work?:

Norimb. [i.e. Nuremberg]

based on a combination of:
-- 4B3's instruction to supply the modern form of the place name in square brackets after the Latin form
-- 4B4's use of "i.e." in examples that show how to expand an abbreviated form by supplying a full form

Manon

--
Manon Théroux
Head of Technical Services
U.S. Senate Library
SR-B15 Russell Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
(202) 224-3833



On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Lenore Rouse <rouse at cua.edu> wrote:
> Supplied fuller forms of place names (4B4)
>
> When supplying the fuller form of an abbreviated Latin place name, 
> should the cataloger supply the nominative case or extrapolate to the 
> genitive case which was what printers generally used? This question 
> derives from a 1714 book published in "Norimb." I.e. modern Nuremberg.  
> A previous cataloger supplied Norimb[ergae] which raises 2 questions.
>
> 1.     This is the genitive (which is the way most - but not all -  
> printers represented the place).   My gut reaction is that it is 
> requiring too much of most catalogers to construct the genitive form 
> of the place of publication, that doing so would be reading  
> (unfaithfully?) into the piece, and that such a practice could also 
> hamper catalog users.  Maybe this question came up during B editing 
> but the instruction in 4B4 doesn't say exactly WHAT form the fuller form should take in such variable situations.
>
> 2.       Also the 4B4 examples of supplied fuller forms of place do 
> not insert brackets within a word the way examples in GM do - eg.
> Phila[delphia]. I have vague recollections that this was discussed 
> somewhere long ago, and that the brackets in Phila[delphia] or 
> Norimb[ergae] will defeat a keyword search and hence such 
> constructions are no longer recommended. Is this correct? This item is 
> not retrievable by place of publication in my system unless the 
> searcher knows where to insert brackets in Norimb[ergae], but would 
> Rio [de Janeiro] as suggested in 4B4 not cause a similar problem? Appreciate any clarification on these.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Lenore
>
>
> --
> Lenore M. Rouse
> Curator, Rare Books & Special Collections The Catholic University of 
> America Room 214, Mullen Library
> 620 Michigan Avenue N.E.
> Washington, D.C. 20064
>
> PHONE: 202 319-5090
> E-MAIL: rouse at cua.edu
>
>
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