[DCRM-L] Ligatus thesaurus

Wed Jun 22 10:34:18 MDT 2016

Thanks for clarifying this, Matt. I was originally looking at the site on my phone, so didn't see the details.

N

+----------
Nina Schneider
Rare Books Librarian
William Andrews Clark Memorial Library
University of California, Los Angeles
2520 Cimarron Street
Los Angeles, CA  90018

(323) 731-8529
nschneider at humnet.ucla.edu
http://www.humnet.ucla.edu/humnet/clarklib/

** Please note: The Library is currently closed for a seismic retrofit **

________________________________________
From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu <dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu> on behalf of Matthew C. Haugen <matthew.haugen at columbia.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 9:24:02 AM
To: DCRM Users' Group
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] Ligatus thesaurus

Hi Nina, I noticed those codes too. The new codes relating to the RBMS CVs seen in the MARC Technical Notice on April 7 are separate from the RBMS Genre/Form codes, which have not changed.

These new source codes are for standard identifiers, not for terms, and are specified for use in 024 $7, not in 655 $7.

Encoding this in an authority record for a term would allow for establishing equivalencies between other vocabularies, and other applications which would rely on identifiers rather than terms. I did not see any announcements or discussion about these codes, either.

I suspect their addition has something to do with the work to publication of the CVs as linked data? https://github.com/rbmsvocabs

Perhaps someone else can elucidate.

Matt

On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Schneider, Nina <nschneider at humnet.ucla.edu<mailto:nschneider at humnet.ucla.edu>> wrote:
All,

I just had a look at this list and noticed the RBMS thesaurus/CV codes have also changed. Did I miss an announcement?

Nina

+---------------
Nina M. Schneider
Chair, RBMS Bibliographic Standards Committee

Rare Books Librarian
William Andrews Clark Memorial Library
2520 Cimarron Street
Los Angeles, CA  90018
(323) 731-8529<tel:%28323%29%20731-8529>

nschneider at humnet.ucla.edu<mailto:nschneider at humnet.ucla.edu>
http://www.humnet.ucla.edu/humnet/clarklib/

From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu> [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu>] On Behalf Of Matthew C. Haugen
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 8:02 AM
To: DCRM Users' Group

Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] FW: [Marketing Mail] Re: ["EXLIBRIS-L"] Ligatus thesaurus [Was "Untrimmed Edges"]

Richard, Thank you for the suggestion. I queried them just now, and will let the list know what I hear.

Thanks,

Matt

On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 10:11 AM, Noble, Richard <richard_noble at brown.edu<mailto:richard_noble at brown.edu>> wrote:
Matt-

Did you query the MARC Standards Office about "kobt"? It looks very much like a typo from whatever source that found its way into the two documents. If it is, then it should be corrected asap, before it finds its way into too many records.

Richard

RICHARD NOBLE :: RARE MATERIALS CATALOGUER :: JOHN HAY LIBRARY
BROWN UNIVERSITY  ::  PROVIDENCE, R.I. 02912  ::  401-863-1187<tel:401-863-1187>
<Richard_Noble at Br<mailto:RICHARD_NOBLE at BROWN.EDU>own.edu<http://own.edu>>

On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 6:05 PM, Matthew C. Haugen <matthew.haugen at columbia.edu<mailto:matthew.haugen at columbia.edu>> wrote:
All, Thanks for the feedback. I submitted a request for a new source code for the Language of Bindings Thesaurus to the MARC standards office on February 5. A new code was announced in the MARC Technical Notice on April 7, but it just came to my attention today:
Genre/Form Code and Term Source Codes

The following source code has been added to the Genre/Form Code and Term Source Codes<http://www.loc.gov/standards/sourcelist/genre-form.html> list for usage in appropriate fields and elements.
Additions

  *   kobt - Language of Bindings Thesaurus (London: University of Arts)
Sources:
http://www.loc.gov/marc/relators/tn160406src.html

http://www.loc.gov/standards/sourcelist/genre-form.html

This enables the use of the thesaurus in 655_7 $2 kobt
I would have expected lobt, but both LOC documents do show kobt.
Matt

On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 3:30 PM, Carpenter, Jane <jfcarpenter at library.ucla.edu<mailto:jfcarpenter at library.ucla.edu>> wrote:
Nina, LOB = Language of Bindings (Ligatus)
I believe it’s Jackie Shieh
You’re right—Feb 15th is President’s Day!  (I didn’t realize….)  We’ll reschedule the CV meeting
Thanks for pointing that out
Jane
From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu> [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu>] On Behalf Of Schneider, Nina
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 12:23 PM
To: DCRM Users' Group <dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l at lib.byu.edu>>

Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] FW: [Marketing Mail] Re: ["EXLIBRIS-L"] Ligatus thesaurus [Was "Untrimmed Edges"]

Sorry, Matt, for being dense. What’s LOB?

Also, I went to an ALA reporting meeting at UCLA yesterday and one person reported on a meeting they attended (PCC at Large, I believe) in which expansion of fields beyond $0 (such as $0 for authorities, $w for works and $4 for bibliographic relationships) help with linking. I believe it’s a pilot of the URI Task Group (I think Jackie Shay – George Washington University -- gave the presentation at Midwinter).

Nina

From: dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu<mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu> [mailto:dcrm-l-bounces at lib.byu.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew C. Haugen
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 10:05 AM
To: Deborah J. Leslie
Cc: DCRM Users' Group
Subject: Re: [DCRM-L] FW: [Marketing Mail] Re: ["EXLIBRIS-L"] Ligatus thesaurus [Was "Untrimmed Edges"]

I am considering submitting a request for a new MARC genre/form code and term source code for the LOB database to enable use of the terms in 655 as with rbbin. Would others find this desirable? Has a request already been made, perhaps?

Thanks,

Matt

On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 10:31 AM, Deborah J. Leslie <DJLeslie at folger.edu<mailto:DJLeslie at folger.edu>> wrote:
For those who don't studiously read ExLibris-L. This thesaurus has been a long time in preparation: http://www.arts.ac.uk/research/ual-research-centres/ligatus/

Deborah J. Leslie | Folger Shakespeare Library | djleslie at folger.edu<mailto:djleslie at folger.edu> | 202.675-0369<tel:202.675-0369> | 201 East Capitol St., SE, Washington, DC 20003 | www. folger.edu<http://folger.edu>

From: Nicholas Pickwoad [mailto:npickwoad at paston.co.uk<mailto:npickwoad at paston.co.uk>]
Sent: Friday, 08 May 2015 10:19
To: exlibris-l at list.indiana.edu<mailto:exlibris-l at list.indiana.edu>
Subject: [Marketing Mail] Re: ["EXLIBRIS-L"] Ligatus thesaurus [Was "Untrimmed Edges"]

Dear Leslie,

I have now at last got news. The thesaurus will be open to all in the week leading up to a conference we are putting on in London with CERL on 23 June (the poster is about to go out). The accompanying volume, Coming to Terms: guidelines for the description of historical bindings (120,000 words and about 500 illustrations) is now with the designer and will be available later in the summer.

All the best

Nicholas

Professor Nicholas Pickwoad
Ligatus Research Centre
CCW Graduate School, University of the Arts London
16 John Islip Street
London SW1P 4JU

e-mail: npickwoad at paston.co.uk<mailto:npickwoad at paston.co.uk>

On 8 May 2015, at 15:12, "Deborah J. Leslie" <DJLeslie at FOLGER.edu<mailto:DJLeslie at FOLGER.edu>> wrote:

Nicholas,

Any word on when the Ligatus thesaurus will be available for general use?

Deborah J. Leslie | Folger Shakespeare Library | djleslie at folger.edu<mailto:djleslie at folger.edu> | 202.675-0369<tel:202.675-0369> | 201 East Capitol St., SE, Washington, DC 20003 | www. folger.edu<http://folger.edu>

-----Original Message-----
From: Nicholas Pickwoad [mailto:npickwoad@<mailto:npickwoad@>paston.co.uk<http://paston.co.uk>]
Sent: Friday, 08 May 2015 03:59
To: exlibris-l at list.indiana.edu<mailto:exlibris-l at list.indiana.edu>
Subject: [Marketing Mail] Re: ["EXLIBRIS-L"] "Untrimmed Edges"

Dear Andy Foster,

I wrote this last night but had not sent it off before I saw Terry's response. We are largely in agreement, except over the use of the word 'trimmed', as Anglophone binders, of whom I am one, use the word 'cut' for the substantial removal of the edges of the leaves across a whole bookblock, while 'trim' has a sense in English of a much lighter cut than is usually seen on most books. We will include 'trim' as an alternative term for 'cut', and the community at large will decide which it prefers. These differences in terminology between the practitioners and the users are not uncommon. For most binders, cutting is done in a 'cutting' or 'laying press'; there is no piece of equipment called a 'trimming press'.

My original message:

We have tried to sort this out for the Ligatus thesaurus as follows: As the treatment of the individual edges of any bookblock can be different, you always need to make clear whether you are describing all or only one or two of the edges. Deckle (not deckled) edges will, as you indicate, appear on the bookblock edges according to how the sheet of handmade paper is folded, and will, under normal circumstances, be present on all three outer edges only on folio format books, and on the fore- and tail edges of quartos, etc. The term 'rough edges' is a somewhat archaic form of 'deckle edges' (it was used in the eighteenth century), but all such edges are 'uncut edges'. The term 'rough cut' is rather different and means the same as  the term 'rough trimmed' as in rough trimmed edges' (defined in the Ligatus thesaurus as:  "Uneven edges in which leaves or groups of leaves were trimmed, often by hand with shears, either before the book was sewn or after to remove the oversized leaves which would otherwise have projected from the edge of the bookblock. A rough-trimmed edge is therefore very different from one that is 'cut solid' with a plough or draw knife (or, more recently, a guillotine). Edges of both sorts can be found on the same bookblock"). Although the terms  'cutting' and 'trimming' have been used to mean the same things (cutting solid with a plough, etc.), we are suggesting that only the term 'cutting' is used for this, and 'trimming' be reserved for 'rough trimming', in the hopes of keeping the two different processes distinct.

Bolts on the folded edges of leaves will be cut off by edge cutting (or indeed to some extent by rough trimming) and the textblock thus 'opened', but bolts can be 'opened' individually without cutting the edge of the bookblock, leaving any deckle edges intact.

Nicholas Pickwoad

On 7 May 2015, at 20:14, Milton & Hubble Books <andy at miltonandhubble.com<mailto:andy at miltonandhubble.com>> wrote:
Hello List:

I'm pondering the terms for describing edges in fine press books with hand made paper.

Should the term "Deckled Edges " or "Rough Edges"  be used only when such edges are present Head, Fore, and Tail - that is ALL EDGES?    What if such Rough Edges should remain on the sheet edge, but appear in the book together with trimmed edges - sometimes on the Head edge, sometimes on the Fore Edge, or sometimes on more than one edge, as folding would have it?

Should the term "Untrimmed Edges" be a safe catch-all phrase, encompassing all possibilities including unopened edges as well as these cases of scattered deckled edges?

Thank you for your kind assistance!

Andy Foster
Milton and Hubble Books
Pasadena, California

--

--
Matthew C. Haugen
Rare Book Cataloger
102 Butler Library
Columbia University Libraries
E-mail: matthew.haugen at columbia.edu<mailto:matthew.haugen at columbia.edu>
Phone: 212-851-2451<tel:212-851-2451>

--

--
Matthew C. Haugen
Rare Book Cataloger
102 Butler Library
Columbia University Libraries
E-mail: matthew.haugen at columbia.edu<mailto:matthew.haugen at columbia.edu>
Phone: 212-851-2451<tel:212-851-2451>

--

--
Matthew C. Haugen
Rare Book Cataloger
102 Butler Library
Columbia University Libraries
E-mail: matthew.haugen at columbia.edu<mailto:matthew.haugen at columbia.edu>
Phone: 212-851-2451<tel:212-851-2451>

--

--
Matthew C. Haugen
Rare Book Cataloger
102 Butler Library
Columbia University Libraries
E-mail: matthew.haugen at columbia.edu<mailto:matthew.haugen at columbia.edu>
Phone: 212-851-2451